FFW x Ali Kriegsman - Dec 23 - pt1
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[00:00:00] business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World podcast. I'm Jasmine Garnsworthy. I'm the host of the show.
I'm the person behind all things Female Founder World. And today I'm chatting with entrepreneur and author, Allie Kriegsman. Allie, welcome.
You are now entering female founder world with your host, Jasmine
Garnsworthy.
Hi, Jasmine. Thank you for having me. We've had you involved in the community since pretty much day one. I know. It's crazy. I think we did a workshop together right before it was even Female Founder World.
Like I was, nothing, I was just going through, I was just going through like closing down my beauty business. And I was in this like sticky place of not knowing what was next. And it was like COVID and I was reaching out to different founders in my community and I was like, Hey, let's like teach a workshop let's have calls and conversations.
Cause I know a lot of people are like in this space right now and we're all, at home and online and trying to connect and trying to continue learning. And you're like, yeah, sure. I'm down. And we just invited my Instagram community. I think it was amazing. [00:01:00] It was amazing. It was a workshop.
It was a networking workshop. Oh, yeah. Okay. I remember it was how to build a network. It was really good. We should do it again. Let's do it. It's really good. Okay. People that don't know you as well as I do. What's your story? Okay, I'll try to keep it concise. So I'm Allie. I started my first business called Bulletin when I was 24.
If you have worked with Jasmine or Female Founder World on the retail boot camp or anything like that you may know Bulletin. It's very similar to Fair Wholesale. It didn't start out as that. We pivoted like three or four times. We used to run our own retail stores all around New York City. They were retail as a service businesses.
So similar to like show fields or neighborhood goods. It was a membership model pay to play where brands could pay to have retail space in, prime parts of New York city. We created a dashboard where brands could see their sales in real time, learn about their customers, which is still very unheard of in retail.
And. We scaled the [00:02:00] wholesale marketplace version of that business. The version of it that was very similar to fair. And when I was, I want to say 30, 31, so eight years into building bulletin and pivoting, as I said, like multiple times we sold it to Emerald, which is the biggest B2B events business in the United States.
They run ICFF, New York now, the preeminent event Gift and lifestyle and accessories show in the U S. So if you do trade shows like Atlanta market shop object you may also do or know of New York now. So they acquired us they turned bulletin into its own trade show concept in addition to taking over our wholesale marketplace so that their buyers and sellers could connect online, three, six, five, all throughout the year.
I then started consulting. I actually consulted for Female Founder World in addition to a bunch of amazing e commerce brands. I then joined a company called Scent Lab for about seven [00:03:00] months as their chief marketing officer. I left last week, so it's a bit fresh helped scale their business, rebrand the business launch their perfume launch their creator seeding program, overhauled the website.
And now I'm chilling. I also published a book. I've never seen you chill. I know. Everyone is you have to chill now. I published a book in 2021 called how to build a goddamn empire. That book, a great book. Thank you so much. It's about entrepreneurship and like building. Literally from the trenches, I felt like all the books I was reading throughout my entrepreneurial journey were written from on high, right?
We love Girlboss. Like we love Lean In. But those were written by millionaires, after they had exited. And I was like, I'm getting the best advice from women that are three or four paces ahead of me. That is literally what this community is about. I was just going to say that is female founder world, And I was like I'm not getting anything like that in my journey.
Like female founder world didn't exist. And so I was approached by [00:04:00] a agent. I submitted a proposal. I published it with Abrams in 2021. one. I published it during COVID, which was very difficult. But yeah, if you feel like you're a solo founder or you just want something like a little dense that you can have on your, bedside table, in addition to everything that Female Founder World is offering you a lot of folks say that my book is Their silent co founder, like when they go to bed at night and they have imposter syndrome or they don't know how to pivot or they're really insecure about their pivot or they don't know how to fire their first employee or they don't know what type of fundraising they should do.
If they should crowdfund or take on venture capital or they literally don't even know what venture capital is this book is a very like honest, raw rudimentary, look at entrepreneurship. And I also interviewed 30 other women founders about their experiences. So it's not just my story.
You also hear from 30 other women in their journey. So if you can't relate to me and my experience, like I took on venture [00:05:00] capital, I did an accelerator program. I know that's not everyone's tale, right? You can relate to someone else in the book. And then I did eventually, sell my business, and I had no idea that was going to happen and so I think it's really interesting to read the book knowing that I successfully did that.
Yeah. Because reading the book, I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have imposter syndrome I'm waking up, with anxiety shits every morning. But yeah. I got that like shiny, glossy landing that so many people aim for, the journey there is not pretty.
And I wanted people to know that because at the time of my journey of entrepreneurship, like a lot of people on Instagram and the media were like glamorizing entrepreneurship and it's not glamorous, which I know everyone listening to this podcast knows, but at the time it was like a revolution.
Yeah. Yeah. It really was a revelation, and I'll put a link in the show notes, everyone can get your book. Thank you. You genuinely need a, you need a copy of it. I also I think I have it on, [00:06:00] did I get it on Audible? Audible, yeah. I'm the narrator. Yeah, it's really nice. You like my voice. It's like chatting with you.
It's lovely. Thank you. So yeah, I also recommend like the Audible version as well. If that's more your jam, you're listening to a podcast, so you probably like Audible. listening to things and that's the way that you learn. Okay, there's so much I want to talk to you about. Where do we start? Your expertise, I think is you're like in a really incredible brand builder, marketer like world class.
You're amazing at it. I love that fuck, here I am. Yes, you are. I want to talk about for people who are in the trenches right now, like you just said, and they are in the trenches, Either trying to take a business that is just like ticking along, like they're getting some sales, but they've not hit that.
They've not hit like what they, I don't know if this point exists or not, but it's like that, that, that momentum, that inflection point where they're like, Okay. I can see where this is. I can see how this is going to take off. I know where I need to like pour all of my attention right now. Like I know what that thing is [00:07:00] for someone who is looking for that and trying to find that that fit and that alignment.
What do you recommend? I know that's a really like broad kind of question, but I just think a lot of us have this feeling of I'm just like not there. I don't know where there is, but what do I need to do to get that feeling? So I think it really depends on your brands. Yeah. Like I always start there I think because I consult for so many different brands I know that's the root of the unlock, right?
Like for Scent Lab, for example which like I'll speak to it, I'm not there anymore. So everything I take, everything I say, I just want to share is like in hindsight as someone that was in the business is no longer in the business. It's, my views as now an outsider that had worked on that business.
That is a mass slash mastige brand, right? The unlock for us was not getting in Vogue or [00:08:00] having a super prestige influencer that, you know and paying them, a certain big chunk of money to, include us in a post or a tick tock or, getting featured in some like glamorous editorial or getting placed in fashion substacks written by people that are featuring like 200.
gift guides. That doesn't make sense for our brand, but I'm consulting for another brand right now that's launching in January. It's a super innovative skin care brand made with a proprietary mushroom extract. The founder's family has been cultivating and harvesting mushrooms since literally the 1800s.
It's like an amazing story and such a fun, fun story. Brand story to sink my teeth into and work on where, because of the price point of that product because of that brand's positioning, because of her customer and the amount of disposable income that customer needs to have in order to participate in the [00:09:00] brand.
. Everything I just said that doesn't make sense for Scent Lab actually makes sense for her and her brand and the unlock for one brand is not going to be the unlock for another. And so the one thing I want to say to this audience is like when you're coveting what's happening to other brands, you really need to ask yourself first and foremost, does this even make sense for my brand and my audience?
Like just because brand X is getting featured in Y sub stack or Z publication or Y article or X, Y, Z influencers, Tik Tok, like their audience may not be your customer. And so I think you really need to drill down into what is my product? What is my customer and where is my customer going to find that specific product?
So for set lab again our biggest pursuit this year was like mass retail. It's like target Ulta. We are. Or they are excitingly [00:10:00] launching with its first retailer in Q1, which is amazing. And that was like the big effort this year. Is it the, pan ultimate retailer that is going to unlock, the sky's the limit, like massive momentum for that brand?
No, but is this like kind of the first stepping stone to that journey? For the team? I hope so. Because do buyers need to know that the brand is succeeding and that first lily pad retailer to get to the next retailer? Yes. And for a product like, blendable perfume that is so sensory, it's not going to happen online.
It's going to happen in a physical store, right? And so that's the type of thinking that you need to do. Is your product sensory or non sensory? Is it a lifestyle product? Is it something that's going to get unlocked by a girl wanting to be the girl that's using the product? In which case, you maybe do need to invest in paying influencers that convey that.
The [00:11:00] ethos of that girl and tell the story of the girl that your customer wants to be. Or is it something that's more utilitarian where you need to invest in creator videos instead where they don't convey a lifestyle but they can get really creative with the usage of the product and create really compelling viral videos with how the product is used.
And you're not paying them to make those videos. You're paying to spark those videos through the backend of TikTok. And so I think it just really boils down to positioning of your product and who your audience is and where your customer is going to find it and blocking out the noise and like envy and jealousy of what's happening for other brands because so much of what's happening for other brands just it may be relevant to their brand and that brand story and that brand's journey but it literally just may not matter for you so just don't worry about it.
We did a workshop recently for our business bestie members where it was a [00:12:00] 2024 reflection and my it was led by the leadership advisor that I work with and you know she's amazing. We did this workshop and one of the things that kept coming up in the chat was this I keep getting distracted by my.
competitors, other people in the land, like in my landscape, in my field and yeah, I know I need to put the blinders on, but like, how do I actually do that? And I feel like this as well. And I've really had to stop myself from checking certain Instagram accounts and like mute people and just be really clear.
And I'm following this like strategy that I have written down and I have promised myself and in six months we'll review it if it's not working but I have to like stick to this and what they're doing doesn't matter otherwise I just think you end up in this like really distracted throwing spaghetti against the wall and I'm like my competitors aren't the best.
People I need to be listening to, I need to be listening to my community and my customer. And that's the person that should be directing where we're going with this. And so trying to tune out everyone else. But [00:13:00] this is only something that I think I've been able to do literally in the last three to five months.
Like it's like really difficult. And I can get in a real like anxiety spiral about we're not like not growing fast enough. Like we didn't go viral this week. Like we didn't like our newsletters didn't spike or all of this stuff that actually just like vanity metrics and doesn't speak to the value that we're adding to the customer.
And I want to know your advice about keeping those blinders on and staying true to the vision that you've set yourself and having that self trust, I think as well, that the vision that you set is the right one to follow because you've done this for multiple brands now. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, the most difficult thing, and honestly I don't I'm gonna get real I feel like only in the last few months have I accepted Oh, I'm really smart.
Like I've driven. Only in the last few months? Yeah. Oh, Ally. Like I've driven so much value like for [00:14:00] my clients, for the people I've worked with. Like I'm allowed to be like the secret sauce and like I have the answers, right? And I think that the scariest thing. about not looking at your competitors and keeping your blinders on is you have to believe that you have the answers.
Like, why are you looking at your competitors for the answers? You'd rather trust strangers running their business where you have literally no visibility into their decision frameworks, the people working there, their values, their integrity their numbers, like, Why would you look at them and trust them over you, where you have all the data?
And I think for some reason that like self trust is really scary. There's a quote in my own book from an entrepreneur that I interviewed that always stuck with me. And I feel [00:15:00] like only now am I really, sitting with what it truly means and the impact of it. Jasmine Manns is like a spoken word poet and an entrepreneur.
And she said something in my book that's it's really it, like you can be the master. Like sometimes you have to wake up and just realize I am the master. Like I have the answers. And I think what's really scary about that to people is that then if you fail, it's on you versus if you copy a competitor's playbook or if you copy a competitor's format for TikTok or like whatever it is, if you look around you and you mimic or you cherry pick and you like imitate and then it doesn't work, You're able to be like, okay that was them, right?
Versus if you do it from within and your own intuition and it doesn't go right, like you're the only one to blame. So I think part of it is first like accepting failure and accepting that things may not happen as fast as [00:16:00] you want and letting that be okay. And then you can start to. To trust yourself because you know that if things don't go right, or if things don't go as well as you want, or if things don't go as fast as you want, that it's not a big deal.
It's like a self protection mechanism. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, that's that's really powerful stuff. How How have you come to this point within yourself? Like you said, within the last three to five months, you've started to feel more comfortable that you are the secret source. And I don't know anyone who looked at you externally, I think a lot of people look at you and they think that they want to be Ally, like they're looking at you thinking like, wow, everything she's achieved, she's amazing, all of that.
What was this turning point? Or was there any practice that you were doing in like a practical way that helped you get there? Or was it more of a just fuck it moment of you know what? I'm not doing this bullshit anymore. I think the story I've told myself since I was 24 is I am here to support someone else's vision.
People look at Bulletin and they think of me because I was like the face of the [00:17:00] business and the marketer behind the business and I did all of our press interviews and same thing with Scent Lab. Like I joined that business and like I was in all the social media stuff and like I, And I'm very good at inheriting someone else's vision and absorbing it and like activating on it really quickly.
And yeah, the story I told myself since I started my entrepreneurial journey almost 10 years ago was like, I exist to inherit someone's vision and execute on it and market the shit out of it and bring it to life. And yeah, slowly but surely over the last few months, I was like, Who told me that story?
Like, why? Like, why did I tell myself that story? And I think doing that for a second time in an environment where I just wasn't as values aligned, where I just didn't feel like my integrity was in the right environment [00:18:00] where I just didn't feel good. I was like, yeah, this story like needs to stop.
Like I just, it was like hearing a bedtime story too many times and just like wanting to throw it out the window. And yeah, and then just realizing like I've worked with so many clients that have validated my work and my impact where, If I'm the common denominator here then maybe I don't need to be playing this supporting role and I don't know what that means for me as far as a next step, but I just think we need to be careful about the stories we tell ourselves.
Yeah, true with that.
[00:19:00] [00:20:00]
I want to talk about we've mentioned like brand and alignment and making sure that the strategy that you're following, it works for the product that you have and where you want to sit, whether it's mass, whether it's more of a prestige brand. What are some signs for someone who is thinking, all right, I think my issue here is this alignment, whether it's like product market fit, brand market fit price market fit, like whatever it is.
I think my issue is alignment because I think a lot of time people think Oh, I just need to raise some more money that I can fuel into marketing and then like it'll solve all my problems. But we actually need to go back to this have you got all of this like foundational stuff set up?
What are some signs that maybe. You do or don't have fit in like brand product pricing in your experience. This is a deep one. Look, I think if people aren't buying what you're selling it could be so many [00:21:00] things, right? Like it could be that your website isn't conversion optimized. It could be that.
Your product is actually very good, like in, in the fragrance world, it's, we call it like the juice like it could be that you have good juice, but like the packaging, whatever the product is coming in whether it, like the literal packaging or like the physical box that it comes in, if it's in retail, isn't conveying the value of the product, and there is a misalignment with price.
If something is 50 dollars, but the box that it comes in looks like it should cost 999 you realn about that. And really just have an honest look I think a lot of the time about whether that is fact trên. And maybe you do a focus group if you think that there is price misalignment and value [00:22:00] communication misalignment.
Like just because something is like sustainable and high quality on the inside, if you're using like plastic packaging or something on the outside, that's not like justifying the fact that it's X amount of dollars cause you need to make 80 percent margin or 70 percent margin, whatever it is. You need to ask yourself, like, how do I get my customer?
Or my goal customer in a room, a nice representative sample, maybe it's 30 people and how do I run a diagnostic test to understand if that's a problem? Yeah. Look within your competitive set. Not to make yourself feel bad, but just to be like, how is everyone else pricing this and what does their product look like?
What does the packaging feel like? What does it feel like? Go look at the product and hold it. Exactly. Exactly. If it's a website issue, install, Lucky Orange. Become obsessed with Google Analytics. I have been on many a [00:23:00] website. This happened over Black Friday where I tried to buy things.
This happened three times where the website just wasn't working. I tried to send this aperitif that I love to my mom's house for Thanksgiving and it was on sale and I couldn't check out. And I was like, what? And it's okay, maybe that was a glitch for a day. But It depends on how small your team is, but if you're moving really quickly and your site's not working then you have an issue, right?
So maybe it's your website. Maybe it's your brand. I'm obsessed with these accounts on Instagram where LaCroix, for example, went through three different rebrands to get to the LaCroix we know and love today. Yes, the editor of Entrepreneur Magazine posts these on his Instagram and his LinkedIn.
It's incredible. And it's it shows like the original branding and it's made no sales and then the end branding is like exited for 500 million, exited for a billion. And that's a real thing, right? Like when I joined ScentLab, I inherited a brand that knowing what we were launching and what the price points were going to [00:24:00] be for perfume, I was like, this isn't cheap.
This isn't gonna work, right? And, we were all in agreement that like we needed to elevate across the board in order to justify the price points that we were bringing to market. Is this the final stage of the brand? I don't know. Maybe they'll end up, changing and elevating again. But this happens all the time, right?
Like you have to look at your brand also and be like, is this outdated? Does this communicate to the demographic I'm going for? Maybe it's your photography. Like this again just happened with the brand I was working on. I was working with a photographer who was like, the photography style you're doing is not talking to Gen Z, right?
And that was a conversation that we had. So it's, you have to go like bit by bit and do like process of elimination. And I think you start with what's easiest to eliminate, like [00:25:00] website conversions easiest to dissect and eliminate. Brand resonance, like maybe you do that and then packaging one in the same in a big focus group.
But these are like, material things that you can like parse out and look at and knock out. But then at the end of the day, like people just may not want what you're selling. Like the founder of like Starface and Julie, they have this like amazing brand holding company, they Sunset plus the like dissolve, the like body wash thing that they launched.
It was like a paper tally body wash that just dissolves single use really clever, no waste. Yeah. It technically piggybacked trends that this generation should have worked. It should have worked, right? I don't know how they decided that it wasn't worth investing in to try to get it to work, but like sometimes things don't work, that founder is like a genius.
She's incredible. But like she launched something. That didn't work and that's okay. But was it the [00:26:00] product? Was it the brand? Was it the positioning? Was it the web? I don't know, but it just also may not work. Yeah. Sometimes just people don't want the product. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get like super specific about focus groups.
Like what kind of questions do you, have you run focus groups before? How do you facilitate that? Other businesses, but not most recently. There is, I talk about this book all the time, there is a downloadable ebook called The Mom Test. That is incredible. It basically, it doesn't teach you how to run a focus group.
It gives you frameworks for how to ask non leading unbiased questions of your goal customer. And it basically teaches you how to. Interrogate your customer about really important things you need to learn without leading them on and without selling to them. That's my problem. I'm a natural born salesperson.
So if I'm talking to a customer, chances are I'm going to [00:27:00] end the conversation and like you're going to want to buy what I sell just because I've connected with you and asked you about like your family and your dog, so this was really important for me to read because it basically trains you out of yeah. Leading the person to saying what you want to hear. And it helps you like scientifically get to the answers you need in order to learn what you need to learn about your business. Okay. Helpful stuff.
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