Ian Charms
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Hey, business besties, before we get into the show today, I have a quick reminder for you because we are less than five weeks out from the big end of year, female founder world summit. This is happening on the 2nd of November in New York city.
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hey, business besties, welcome back to the female founder world podcast. I am Jasmine. I'm the host of the show. I'm the [00:01:00] person behind all things female founder world. And today I'm chatting with Lisa Sahakian, the founder of Ian charms. Welcome. Hi. I actually forgot to tell you on January 1st, I wrote four goals and one of them was to be on this podcast and you reached out I feel like it was like that week.
No, I'm like the amount of people that tell me stuff like that. But I don't know if I'm just. I don't know. Feeling it. I'm like, when people like put it out there come, I get it. Totally. It's weird. Yeah. This happens a lot. It happened like immediately after I wrote it down. I've been listening for a long time and then I was like, I want to go on it.
That's a good line. That's so cool. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Wow. For people that don't know Ian Charms, what are you building? Ian Charms is a jewelry and accessories, I'd say lifestyle brand. It started as an accident. And here I am about three and a half years into it. So you started in [00:02:00] 2021 and it was really like to make a gift.
Yes. How does that turn into a business? So basically for my ex at the time, I wanted to get him like a nice chain. Yeah. I never really wore jewelry and I definitely didn't know how to make it. I went to 14 carat here in Beverly Hills. anything I could afford was so boring and anything I thought was cool was way out of my budget.
So I was like, let me see if I can make something. So I got some supplies and made him this necklace. And then With the extra supplies, I made the Instagram account and I was just basically selling them to friends to donate. So at the time was when the protests were in L. A., and I couldn't be outside because of autoimmune issues, but I wanted to contribute.
So it was just a donation thing at first, these like cute little bracelets that friends would buy from me that were custom and would probably bust open once they got them. Cause the [00:03:00] first few ones I was like YouTubing how to make a bracelet. And then within two or three weeks, it got picked up by Post Malone stylist and then it clicked for me like, Oh, that's how you get to celebrities when you have a hundred followers.
It's through their stylist and that changed the whole game. We have a workshop with you that's available for people to watch if you want to log in. It's free. I'll link it in the show notes and it's all about, celebrity marketing and this process that you've figured out as a bootstrapped.
small business and how you're getting on these incredible celebrities. But I want to dive into it in this episode as well. But let's just name drop for a minute. What is, who are some celebs that were your brand? Like ultimate for me is Bieber. Like I had cutouts of him in my room as a kid.
Both of them. I, my like high school most likely to was to never say never. Cause my whole grade like made fun of me for being so obsessed with him. So that one's really special. Dua Lipa is who blew it up. Yeah. Emma [00:04:00] Chamberlain also did a lot for the business, Lil Nas X, Joe Jonas, who else? A lot of music.
Charli XCX. Okay. Yeah. We're going to go through your process of how you made all this happen in a minute, but let's get back to the beginning. You started with 600, right? Yes. And you made that money back pretty quickly. Yeah. I remember saying to my boyfriend at the time Oh, I wonder if I'm going to break even.
Yeah. Which was it wasn't even supposed to be really a business thing, but I was just like, huh? I was just curious because it was quickly picking up. And within, I think it was two days, I broke even. And then I was like. Okay, I got to get more stuff like there's still the demand I still want to donate.
I still didn't think of it as a possible career, but I was just like, let's just keep it going. And you're working in entertainment at the time. Yes. I was working in reality TV development as an assistant. I loved it. Like my dream was essentially to run MTV when I was older. I've been saying that since I was a kid, [00:05:00] but I had been like an assistant for so long in entertainment doing way above my pay grade.
They kept promising me a promotion because I was doing more. This also started because they cut my overtime because of COVID, which is the only money you really make as an assistant. So luckily, I asked them finally, I was like, you have to promote me this next month. This was, beginning of 2021.
And luckily they didn't, they were like one more month. And I was like, no. So thank God they didn't. And someone from that job was at the event yesterday. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, wow. Like one of my coworkers, like we're in LA right now. It's the day after our content camp that we held in LA. So that's so interesting.
Yeah. Like full, just me now. We've stayed in touch and are close, but I've had a lot of, Not great bosses in entertainment. Yeah. Not all of them, but I've definitely had some and had them reach out afterwards. Trying to, [00:06:00] whatever it is, and I'm just like, no it's not the time.
Love this. Okay. So you used that first few hundred dollars to get started, then you quit your job, what was it, a few months later frame of 2021? Yes. It was a few months into it, maybe three from when I'd first made the first one. Talk me through some of those early kind of traction points. Like where were those customers coming from?
What were those marketing moments that were really working? After the Post Malone customs that I made, which were for the Billboard Awards the next day, my whole family watched the TV. He didn't wear it, which is super normal. They have a hundred pieces out there, which I didn't know at the time.
So then I reached out to do a leap of stylist. I like loved her style. She's the coolest person ever. I knew her stylist was, and I had said Hey, I'd love to make you some custom pieces. I love your work. Let me know if you want anything. And he was like, Oh, can you make [00:07:00] stuff for my client at Dua Lipa?
Like she would love this. I said, you don't need to at her a hundred percent, like whatever you want. So I made her maybe six or seven custom pieces, sent them over and then just back to back, she was wearing them. And it just Exploded the brand. Wow. And you got a lot of press around that as well. A lot of press.
She was like, because a lot of it was so custom, I made one with like her dog and the pendant. She was doing a story and tagging it. It was very it was very quick. And then once she had it, All the other celebrities and their stylist found me from there. It was a lot easier. Wow. Yeah. The thing I want to call out there is that you you found out who her stylist was.
It's not like you've had a relationship with this person. Like it's not through your entertainment job. Like you found this person on Instagram because they were tagged in one of Dua Lipa's posts, right? Yes. And so then you've reached out, you've DM'ed them, you've sent, you've offered to give them the [00:08:00] product.
So you've not said Hey, can I gift Dua Lipa and send it to you? You've reached out to them being like, this is about you. Yeah. I want them to get the brand and sometimes I do make a custom first for the stylist. Yeah, I want them to get it and not just have it be something that they're getting the box and then putting it over to them.
Like I, I wanted them to be interested in it. He hadn't answered my DM at first, obviously, so I would comment, I had notifications on for any time he'd post. The second he'd post, I'd comment something weird to be like, check your DMs or else or whatever. And finally he looked and I was so stoked.
How did the how did the babies find out about you? So interesting enough, I had tried to reach, I wanted to get on Justin so bad, obviously, And, with Drew, his brand, it's the smiley face, like I thought it was a perfect fit. I kept reaching out to his team, his stylist, their assistants. Through [00:09:00] Instagram DM?
Yes. And maybe email if I'd found it, probably not. And I kept Basically being like, Hey, would love to make him stuff like made this custom and they just kept being like, okay, not biting, like saying Oh, we see this, but we don't need this right now. Then I get a poll, which is like when the stylist wants something for a celebrity, whether it's a trip or something.
And they said it's for a. Confidential client. And I was like, that's weird. Cause that they tell you their clients are well known. So I thought I bet you it's someone who's switching or trying to switch stylists. Cause that happens and is very taboo. And they don't, they can't say it yet. So a few days later, they DM.
I think it was like one of the amazing assistants and they were like, Hey, and they sent me Haley's post. She was wearing it. They were like, she's been wearing it the whole trip. Wow. I was [00:10:00] stoked. And then I said, did you get some to Justin? And they were like, not this time around, the same thing.
And then the next day he basically took all of her pieces and then he started wearing them back to back, followed the brand. And that was so cool because he genuinely took them from her. Like he wore them the rest of the trip, which was just like insane. Which is also, you had that vision from the get go.
You're like, this is going to work for him. I knew he would love it. Like it was, which stylists always have their reasons or they're going a certain direction, but I was so excited to just get it in front of him because I knew he'd wear it. That is so cool. What does that do for a brand? So I hear mixed things about when a celebrity wears your stuff, they don't always like post about it or if they don't tag you.
What does a celebrity, like endorsement like that do for a brand and how do you make the most of it to make sure that you're actually getting sales when that happens? Yeah. So interestingly enough, it's not always who you think is [00:11:00] going to make you the sales with celebrities. Bieber does, and he still does, because he's like an emblem of the brand at this point, because he's worn it so much that people associate the brand with him, luckily.
So when he wears it, he has all these Instagram accounts that are like Justin Bieber closet or Haley Bieber style where they'll reach out like, Oh, is this your necklace? What is it? They'll post and you'll get a lot of people buying that way. Sometimes you gift and you never see it on them.
That's been pretty rare for me, but it's definitely happened. Huge tick tockers. Like the ones that kind of started TikTok, don't push any product for me. It's crazy. They'll wear it all the time. They love it. I'm so glad they do. I was waiting for just like it to come in when I saw them constantly posting it.
And it just didn't translate. It could be because their audience is a little too young to afford Ian Charms. It really depends on the celebrity and their fan base. Also, like I had a K pop fan. Star where one that was psychotic, [00:12:00] like it really is just so dependent on how attached their fans are to them.
So interesting. Yeah. You made your first million in sales a couple, no, not even two years into the business, September, 2022. Yeah. That is insane. It was insane. And like it happened when I was at my, I was at my family. I'm from LA. So I was at my parents house. And it was just such a cool moment because I hadn't even really been paying attention.
I knew it was coming and then I checked and got to say that to my parents and that was just like so special. That's so awesome. You also got a free a free physical store space at Rockefeller Center in New York City. Yes. Literally because you're a cool brand. Yeah. They try to make Midtown cool.
So I had to just give like a percentage of. Revenue, but they were like, you don't have to pay rent. So I had to say yes. That's amazing. Any learnings, lessons out of doing a physical [00:13:00] store? Retail is its own beast and it needs its own like team. It became a lot for me to manage so many people and.
And it's also expensive. We built out the store to look like a teen bedroom. There was a bed in the store. People would walk by midtown and be like, what is this place? But I had to pay for the build out. I paid all my employees. You have to have a manager. So it was a lot of like managing.
It was really good for brand awareness. It was really good to be in New York. We threw some parties that like were iconic. People always talk about them. Luckily Rockefeller center let me do my thing, which was so important. Because it's not their typical type of business and they were like, we'll let you be you.
And we're hoping to bring like younger people up here. I think that kind of like speaks to this brand tone that you have that is super, it's very you. Like it's very irreverent. It's yeah, it's very cool. It's [00:14:00] very specific and it feels hyper niche, even though it's you're speaking to a lot of people.
You also translate that really well into your social media content. Can you tell a little bit about like why that's working and how you've crafted this distinctive tone for yourself? I think it's a little bit. Cause it's like you. I think this is a thing. Like it's you. So it's so funny you say that.
I was thinking about that driving here too. I couldn't do that. That specific thing. People would be like who is she trying to be? So people will say. Who's like the Ian Charms customer, like who's the, whatever they call it for their brand. And I was like, it's me and some of these, and these people that like are, I'm gifting to that align with the brand which essentially is like confident, funny, doesn't take anything too seriously.
And isn't really about following trends is doing their own thing. And because I never made jewelry before, it actually really helped me because I was just thinking, what would I want to wear and then try to make it? [00:15:00] So the Instagram was what really created like an audience that related to me.
Yeah. So I just almost did what I did on my personal, but moved it to Ian charms and I'm obsessed with reality TV and pop culture. So I took my old job and just put it in the format of jewelry. So it was just like very authentically fun, not following the triple, the like typical. Brand guidelines, which now I think brands are loosening up a bit.
But at the time jewelry was like little tiny dainty gold pieces on a silk thing. It just so wasn't my vibe. Yeah. And so I, I felt this gap in the market and just stepped right into it. Yeah. Really interesting. A million in sales is a lot of pieces of jewelry. How are you making all of this?
And so quickly figuring out this production piece. So funny enough, I was designing all of the pieces. So [00:16:00] I, so once we started doing drops, we did a drop every Friday for the first like year and a half, which is insane. There'll be multiple pieces per drop. I was the only one designing them. I would do the design.
I would pack or someone on my team would pack the beads to make, let's say 50 of them, a hundred. My mom would bead them. Oh, thanks mom. Seriously. And it like gave her something to do. Yeah. It's that's been a huge she wants you to win totally, give her some extra money Yeah, it's also like my family Was just then my dad got diagnosed with an illness and it was just a time that we really needed Like levity and my mom like to this day is just like your business like got us through that time Which is so nice.
Like it just was like This unifying thing. She was making them. She only just moved to Florida. My family moved like this year or so [00:17:00] for the first three years. Like it was all my mom. And then now I have a team of separate beaters. Wow, that's crazy. I want to talk a little bit about team. What does that look like for you now?
So that totally changes all the time. Right now there's three people full time. I have like my lawyer on retainer because I get sued all the time, my accountant, and then it's a bunch of like consultants or part time workers at it. When I had the New York store, I had almost around 10 employees at that time total, which then I fall into just being a manager.
Yeah. So that's like kind of the spot I'm at now is trying to find a way to be still creative and have the right perfect team. Yeah. And we're going to talk about that in just a second. But something that I want to ask you a little bit more about is how, first of all, you talk, you talked about being sued.
So let's just cover that for a second because I think that's really important when people are dealing with celebrity gifting [00:18:00] and posting photos. You've learned some hard lessons, save everybody else the lesson.
Okay business besties, I want to just pause for a second. I've got Natalie here on the Female Founderboard team and I want to ask, Nat, are you ready for the holidays? Honestly, no, and I feel like it's coming up so quickly. It's coming up so quickly and that's why I wanted to take a second to chat about this season's presenting sponsor, Vistaprint.
It's honestly the best place to start holiday shopping and right now Vistaprint is giving all Female Founderboard listeners an early holiday gift. Up to 50 percent off holiday cards, wall calendars and more. Oh wow, 50 percent is a pretty, pretty good deal. How do you even have time though for all this holiday shopping?
I know, honestly, like I, I'm usually pretty disorganized but I've been quite on it this year and we've also been sending out these really cute thank you packs to fans. different founders who have been on the podcast, speakers who have been at the events, we've printed really cute like little [00:19:00] fleece blankets, we have embroidered caps and also stuff for my family as well because you know everyone's going to be wearing the Female Founder World merch.
Oh of course, you got to bring the family into it and I I personally love a branded tote bag, but I also didn't know that they did embroidery. That's pretty cool. The embroidered caps are particularly cute. Oh, I love that. Highly recommend. So everyone, go and get your holiday shopping buttoned up with up to 50 percent off custom holiday cards, wall calendars, and more at vistaprint.
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The biggest one I'll say is get your LLC and everything to yourself. Yeah. Don't wait.
Think of verbal agreements. Yeah. I'll have to check with my lawyer if I can say this, but if so, my ex ended up suing me for half the business. Or maybe I can say he, he did sue me. It's public record. Yeah. That's probably all I can say about it. Okay. That was a huge lesson, obviously. And then [00:20:00] from there, it's been about this paparazzi photos, that's someone's property.
Yeah. Even when the Kardashians post themselves, they have to pay for those photos, which is crazy to me. But I had posted these photos of Bieber leaving Nobu in the very beginning. And two years into it, BackGrid, which is an agency that represents these photographers, sued me for 60, 000. I was just served at my door.
And it was the scariest thing. Now I feel so unfortunately prepared when these things come up, because I've learned so much about the process. But, that's something That comes up all the time. Recently, I got sued for posting the cover of a magazine where someone was wearing the piece.
Wow. Luckily, I was like, that doesn't make sense. They wouldn't own the photo. Yeah. Reached out to the magazine and they cleared it up within the day. Wow. And the photographer didn't even know his agents were. Like, sent out, wanted 20, [00:21:00] 000 it's, it is probably the times when I feel like I want to quit most.
And I think that, I just want to double down on this and get really clear because you cannot post an image that is like on Getty or Splash or any of these image agencies, even if they are posted by Allure or Vogue or whatever, they've paid to use it. You cannot screenshot it. You cannot post it on your social media without paying for it yourself, otherwise you can get these really big fines.
And I think a lot of people are Oh, I'm really small. It doesn't matter. They won't come for me. They will come for you. It's AI. They are searching the internet and like They don't care. I was crying to the first lawyer on the phone being like, How can you do this? Like my mom makes these at the kitchen table.
But they don't care. They don't care. Okay. So a really important lesson aside. The next thing I want to ask you about is like protecting yourself from copycats. You make a product that [00:22:00] like looks like it could be something that other people will copy and put on Amazon and like maybe make it really cheaply.
How do you protect yourself from that? So this was something in the beginning I realized really quickly. Okay. I needed to solve because it started happening immediately and I was getting most of, I was getting all of my pieces, like individual beads online. I realized like, how do I build moats around this castle?
And for me it was custom beads. And also the people that make my custom beads, most of them never made beads before. They maybe worked with ceramics or glass and I had found their other work and then said Your work's amazing. Can you make me a smiley out of that and then shove a hole through it?
Yeah. So it's so amazing. I still work with people from all over the world. Some of the ceramic pieces are hand painted by like this tiny family in Peru. And that's just awesome. And no one can copy it. And it makes it so special. [00:23:00] And it also makes them a time capsule. Because once things sell out, I tend to not restock unless it's like a classic.
And so those pieces only like a certain amount of people have, and people can try to dupe it, but it's clear as day to me if it's different. Yeah, totally. Something that you spoke about in our workshop that we did with the female founder board group chat was how you have ADD and the way that's impacted the way that you run the business.
You mentioned before a little bit about how you try and maintain your creativity while still running a functioning company. And like you are now have people that you need to manage, which is a totally different job from being the creative and the visionary, but is a huge part of it. And until you can have a COO or something, you have to figure out a way to make that work.
How have you blended all of these things and figure out a way that's working for you now? It's definitely what I have the hardest time with. It's a daily thing that I'm adjusting.
When we diagnosed with ADD, I was [00:24:00] diagnosed about a year and a half ago. I kept saying to my therapist I'm so overwhelmed and I don't know how to explain to you where to start. And I kept saying that specific thing. And then she had sent me to a psychiatrist. She was like, she did the test with me.
It was inattentive ADHD, which I was like, I don't have ADHD. I did well in school. I don't have a lot of energy if anything, like I don't have enough. And then, there are different types of ADHD. So I learned about inattentive. And it was, it still is like daily mind blowing because things I would beat myself up for totally normal and just learning.
I always say I didn't sign up for this. Whenever I realized I have to manage people or figure out taxes or whatever. I get so frustrated and I'm sit in a spreadsheet. Yeah. Like I'm like, I just wanted to make jewelry. Like, how did I end up here? But you have to have both. And you have to just make systems for yourself and your team to make that as easy as possible.
Yeah. Yeah. So how [00:25:00] did you figure out the systems? So basically I had hired someone named Steph Diedrich who used to work in YouTube fashion. Okay. Who, what he does essentially is completely can organize your company. I had realized, if I'm sick or if something happens, I need to take a break.
This will grind a bit to a halt. Like I'm clearly a bit of a bottleneck. And I was noticing when I'd get sick, like it would just make a little bit of a difference. So I'd hired him. He came on beginning of this year. Everything is in a spreadsheet. It's so organized. I don't have to ask my team 50 different questions.
Oh, where's this in production? Like I don't need to micromanage. I let them do their thing. They update the spreadsheets and then I can check it on my own time. If I'm working at one in the morning, I don't want to be texting my employees. Like I'll let them sleep. It's so easy that now I'm everything is so organized because before it was all in my brain.
And once I realized that [00:26:00] it was terrifying. Yeah. So he basically created for you like trackers and dashboards for gifting for production for all of these pieces so that you know where your team is at any time you can jump in and you can check it. And I'm going to, I'm going to link to this person in the show notes.
Yeah. And also just another thing that was helpful is i, we don't plan ahead. I'd love to. I can't. Everything's so timely. Everything's last minute. It's part of what makes it feel very like, Of the day, if I'm dropping something like it, it's chaos, like it still is to some extent, he would create a checklist for each product.
So it's Oh, here's this. Did you shoot content for Tik TOK with it? Did you make the page on the website? Like everything that just was in my head got written out and he like learned to speak my language and make it easy for me to understand. And it's changed my whole business. Was it expensive doing this?
It was expensive. I [00:27:00] think considering, but Steph says it's or your money back and he's serious. It was supposed to be about a month. It took about three or four because he was like, we're going to, this is what I'm promising your brain. A million percent. I made that money back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Without a question. Yeah. I've recommended him to so many people. Yeah, he completely changed the brand. What else has been helping you as you've been figuring out how to be a founder, manage your ADD, work to your strengths? I think it's. It's just hard balancing it all. It's just chaos all the time.
It's the most fun thing in the world. I'm so lucky. And it's like my baby. And it's hard. I didn't do anything in business before. I consider myself a big thinker, creative person. And I have to learn this as I go and totally make mistakes. And it's scary, but the amount of growth as a person and just obviously as a business [00:28:00] is so rewarding.
And I could never work for someone else again. Neither could I at this point. You hired an ADD coach in last year, 2023. What did they do? Who is that? Do you recommend it? Definitely recommend it. Obviously, if you have ADHD, maybe it would help otherwise. But essentially it's really important.
I feel as a business owner to have routines to try to keep everything as calm as possible because nothing's ever calm. She helped me set up systems for my personal life and for the business. And, I tried using different planners and I just kept, all my information was ever, it was on my phone, it was in a notebook, it was in the planner.
And we just all got it in one place and created routines that I found ways to stick to. Yes. And it totally changed just like my happiness. How did you find routines? I have no routines. It's The thing, it's almost like working out where you're like, Oh, it, you feel so good after just do [00:29:00] it.
Basically, I have this little chart that I mark off if I do my morning and my night routine, that was something we had to add into place because I was like, it's still not happening. The dopamine hit of taking it off a hundred percent, which is part of HD is like craving that dopamine and productivity.
So you know, I do a morning routine that helps me ease into my day because before it was. Peel my eyes open, which, hey, sometimes I still do this. Yeah. My phone's on, business is starting, I'm texting the team. I'm figuring out what to do. Yeah. I have no moments to myself. I go to my workout. I'm just thinking about business the whole time.
Like it's really just adjusted the pace that like my mind goes and it actually makes the business run way smoother. That's really interesting. The last thing I want to talk to you about is partnerships and retail. You have some pretty big stockists now. Yes. Name drop. So Selfridge is one of our biggest.
I think they were Are the first to ever reach out to us. [00:30:00] Nordstrom's we were in Fred Siegel before they just closed our IP. We're in a lot of stores in Seoul, like in Asia. It's very popular for guys to dress stylish. Yeah. So it's very popular in Asia. And then we're in it like a tiny store in Venice.
I like wanted to get into an LA store because people always ask like him in town. Like, how can I get something? So that. I've been really lucky where it's all been inbound. Amazing. I'm trying to like now start doing outbound. Yeah. And it's just for a long time, it was our bread and butter for sure.
Like it was maybe 50 percent of the business for probably two years. Now I it's more on DTC. Yeah. But it's a great thing to constantly have running. And if it's organized, it's awesome. What about partnerships? You've collaborated with a few big brands as well. Can you talk me through what those were and like how you structure those to work for you?
[00:31:00] Yes. So one of my favorites this year is I did a sunglasses collaboration with La Spex. Very cool. So what did you do? Like a little chain? Yeah. Cool. So this is the thing I thought when they hit me up, Oh, they're gonna want me to like bead on, do like that or like just do one chain and they'll sell it.
We did a full line of 12 different pairs of glasses, each of them designed by me. We also did limited edition chains. They let me run wild for the shoot. I got to plan everything, which was the first time I like had a budget to really do that. Yeah. Game changing when a brand that's big, let's you be you, which I'm like, that's why you're trying to collapse.
It's confusing sometimes. It's awesome. Like it totally is so fun. We worked on that for a year and a half. Wow. Maybe two years. I remember they reached out in 2022 and said Hey, we'd love to do this. [00:32:00] It will come out in 2024. And I was like, I am flattered. They think I'll still be here. Sure.
Totally. I was too nice. I was a year into it. Like it was such a crazy thing to think that far ahead. That one was huge. Having them get on certain people like Julia Fox is such a like icon for Ian Charms too. I had made a piece where the frames were called I am a rich man. It was like, obviously a Cher Armenian quote, but inspired by her.
Then she wore it like that's yeah, amazing. So cool. So cool. Yeah. How do you structure something like that? Do the brands pay you an upfront fee? Do you get something based on every sale? Is it like a exposure partner? Like how does that work? So it's always different. I will always, I don't think I would ever do something for exposure unless it's like Taylor Swift or, [00:33:00] that doesn't make sense for a small business because You're like grinding and this takes up a lot of time to do these collabs.
Normally what happens is there'll be like an upfront fee that they'll pay, a partnership fee. And then it's, per basis, it's like either royalties or that, company will buy 200 of these pieces off of me. And do a campaign and sell them like it's really different every time. I have a publicist now who helps me with that because when that started, I was like, Oh, I need some, I don't know how this works.
And a lot of big companies like we'll reach out. I had this issue this morning. They'll reach out, they'll want to do a collab and then they'll say okay, so you'll pay us this much. These are huge brands. And I'm like, what? And there is essentially a licensing deal, which totally works for some brands.
It doesn't work for small businesses in my opinion, and it definitely doesn't work for [00:34:00] me. So I've turned those down and I'm shocked still when I get those, like the smaller brands, are so much more understanding and willing to pay. It's weird. That is so weird. It's so weird. Interesting.
So now you've built this business that is bigger than I think what you originally thought you were doing, right? Like 600 and a gift for your ex. That's not where we're at right now. How are you finding this like stage of entrepreneurship?
Do you like it? So I'm right in that phase right now where, so many people are in your ear when you have a business, which. In some ways is really helpful because I don't know what I'm doing, but you have to learn to tune everyone out. I think to make, for me to make decisions, I got to get really quiet with myself.
So a lot of people are like, this can be huge. This is how you can expand. And then sometimes I'm like, [00:35:00] should I just roll it back? Should I just keep it small, make products I like to be super creative? It's maybe a little bit slower. Like I'm torn in between the two and the brand is in between the two right now.
And then I have to just remind myself. Why am I doing this? And if it's not fun, it's not worth it. If it's not fun, I'll go back to an office job. This is me as a brand. I'm so grateful. It's such a privilege to have a business. I know how quickly it can go. Especially with lawsuits, I would see, Oh God, is this like going to disappear?
So it's just like, how do I stay mentally sane? Happiness is the most important thing. And then I believe in this product. What can I keep making that other people they'll resonate with? Yeah. What would I make for myself that other people want? I love that. Lisa, thank you so much for coming on Female Founder of the World.
And congrats on everything you built. Thank you so much.
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