FFW x Sunday Forever - Raw Footage
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[00:00:00] Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World podcast. I'm Jasmine. I am the host of the show and the person behind all things Female Founder World. Today I'm chatting with Ashley Stockton, the founder of Sunday Forever.
Ashley, welcome. Hi.
You are now entering female founder world with your host, Jasmine Garnsworthy.
For people that don't know Sunday Forever and what you've created there, what is it? It's a small business that I started eight years ago after leaving my corporate job that I was in for about 12 years and it was a dream that I had and um, here I am. Amazing. We, I think this conversation is going to be different to a lot of conversations with other founders and we're going to get into that in a minute, but talk to me about the decision to leave like big corporate job.
Yeah, I think this can help a lot of the corporate girlies out there who are sort of thinking the same thing, which I see a lot of on social media, struggling, you know, I'm in my corporate job and what do I do, it's toxic, this, that, the other thing, or it just doesn't work [00:01:00] in your life. And that's sort of where I led to.
When I start. I started at Victoria's Secret. I was entry level in communications. I quickly moved up the ranks, , and moved into brand development, which is essentially sort of owning a brand category at, and it was at Victoria's Secret. So my first brand that I managed was Pink Beauty. And so that entails literally building out an entire like beauty lineup and brand.
So it was great. It was bootcamp. Then by the time I left, I was head of creative concept. So. That means I traveled the world essentially and shop for ideas and inspiration for the company to then develop products into. So it was a quote unquote dream job, but sometimes when you have a dream job, you also have a target on your back and you have a lot of pressure.
So I think I started really getting burnt out and that became abundantly clear on Sundays, which, hello, Sunday scaries, right? And this was probably 2012 2013 when I started to feel this way. [00:02:00] So, I developed a plan in my head that I was going to leave and do my own thing. And I, I plotted and planned for a couple of years and then I bit the bullet and I did it.
Amazing. And, and I started working on Sunday Forever around 2014 and then officially put it out into the world late 2017, I would say. Very cool. What was, when you said like put it out into the world, what were those things? Like what did you have? Nothing. So. So, um. You know, first of all, Sunday Forever is fully bootstrapped.
I knew, as I mentioned, I made a plan that I was leaving my job, so I started saving. So, the job that I had, and I, you know, I think it's important to talk about money when we talk about starting a business. Yeah. Because it's not talked about often. I think, um, you know, I, You need money to start a business, even if it's a little bit of money depending on your business, but you do.
So I started saving, and I told myself when I have 25K that I feel like I [00:03:00] can just put into the business without worrying, that's when I'll start to really put stuff out. So, I actually started the brand by developing robes, um, because I used to travel to Japan a ton, and was so inspired by everything Japanese in the culture.
And I wasn't a designer of robes. garments. I, I was in the, on the beauty side of the business. , so the first, I would say, I don't know, year of the business was me literally figuring out how to get the perfect robe made. Going to the garment district, running around, getting patterns made, investing all this money.
And then I also spent 10, 000 of that money on a branding agency. Which, was not the right decision because what I did for my career was branding. Yeah. But I think I was so unsure of myself and what I was doing that I thought someone knows better than I do, like, Classic. Right? Classic self doubt. Not only that, my previous job was my entire [00:04:00] identity.
So when I left, I thought, who am I even? And, You know, after 12 years, I think I had a complex of just, I can't do anything else but that. So, I had to teach myself. Wow, okay. What was your vision when you started the business? I knew I wanted to create a brand. Well, first of all, I wanted to leave and start my own thing because I wanted freedom.
Freedom from everything. Freedom from anyone telling me what to do, how to do it, judging my ideas and, you know, having to cut through all the red tape that you do in a corporate world. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do. Um, and I wanted to create a brand that felt really comfy and cozy and calming.
So, it felt like there's a world in which it can feel like Sunday forever. So, that's the inspiration behind the name of the brand because of all the, you know, Terrible anxiety that I think a lot of us feel on Sunday nights, right? When you're thinking [00:05:00] about the week and you're dreading things. So, all of these things that I did to calm myself and soothe myself, like candles, robes, getting cozy, everything, that's what I started to design into and develop.
And so, it grew from there. It just started with robes, then candles, and then other things that I did. How did you get your first customers? Like you aren't some, it's not like an influencer brand. It's not like you had like an inbuilt following. Where did those people come from? And I think the thing about Sunday Forever is you must have some of the most loyal customers of any brand ever.
Like they're really sticky. They love what you're doing and you can just see that in your social following and like the way that they engage with you. How did you get those first customers and then how did you kind of like nurture and develop that as the business grew? I'll never forget it. So I started the company in the corner of our New York apartment, and um, I launched the robes, like I said, first.
I only made 75 pieces. And , [00:06:00] before, way before I even had a product, though, this is, this is something that I think is, is amazing. Everyone should do even before you have a product you can start building out your quote unquote mood board vibe Whatever on socials, whatever platform that might be and that's what I had been doing So I had I don't know maybe a few thousand followers Just kind of loving the vibe.
Mm hmm. And then when I launched the robes, I built the website myself I think I did it on Squarespace like everything is there I shot them with my, it was ridiculous, like I did, everything was DIY, um, and then I'll never forget the first order that I saw that wasn't an aunt, uh, my mom, wasn't like my mother in law, wasn't a friend, I freaked out and then I, I was like, whoa, okay, and that gives you just the bit of momentum that you need to keep going and that's what happened and before I knew it in a week.
You know, they had sold out for real, for real, not just like saying, Oh, we sold out. We had [00:07:00] 75 pieces and we sold every single one. And people still have them to this day. And that was what? 2017, I guess. , and to your point, we still have customers and followers that, , write and say, Oh, I'm a day one er. I have that first rope, which, by the way, I'm sickened because I don't even have them.
And I love them so much. I have others, but I don't have the OGs. But, yeah, it's um, and, and just, I've always known that I wanted to be very involved, customer first. Without them or nothing. Yeah. When you think about like this kind of growth trajectory and , how kind of like small actions add up over time and that's what it, that's what it sounds like.
You're like I'm doing, I'm just like consistently showing up, I'm creating the content, I'm communicating with our customers and then it's kind of like , culminated into this business that it is today. Is there anything else that you were doing? Over those first [00:08:00] couple of years that helped to kind of like drive that traction like were you in your DMS?
Were you doing the email like email marketing? Like what were you doing? No email marketing. Okay. Okay. This is embarrassing, but I'm gonna just say it Yeah, say it. Okay. I didn't I didn't start collecting emails. Okay until 2019 two years in Maybe more. Wow. Didn't know. Right. No. Ads? What's that? Yeah. It was me being very much in my DMs, living in my DMs, and that's still where I live, and on stories.
I, I, I remember in the beginning feeling really weird about being on camera and showing myself on stories, but like, that's when my business started to actually, I wouldn't say take off, but like, build. And I started really having conversations, and I was like, I like this. I like making people happy. The reason why I make things, and the reason why we painstakingly pack everything and do things the way that we've done [00:09:00] forever, is because I want to make people happy.
There's, there's not that much magic out in the world anymore to me. And so I thought if someone can get something and feel like human hands did this for them, it's amazing. I love that. Are you doing any wholesale retails at all through your website? Very, very little. We were very early on fair. I'll never forget.
Um, probably year two, when they were just getting started, they reached out and we were one of the first vendors or whatever on FAIR, and, uh, I thought, okay, I'll give it a shot. Yeah. And it's nothing that we push. Yeah. Right or wrong, we, we haven't done much wholesale at all. What's the decision there?
The same, I think it's the same reason why I declined. Um, big box retailers, , knocking at the door early on. I said no [00:10:00] to many, including Sephora. Wow. Sephora, we got pretty far with and I pulled out of that. Okay.
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So this goes into this whole, this is like what this conversation is going to be about.
It goes into this kind of whole approach and ethos that you have where you genuinely want to build a small business. Like you don't want to create this kind of like big company. You've got a very, very clear idea of what you want and you seem to have not been like distracted by the shiny things. First of all, can you like define for me, like this is what you said to me beforehand.
So can you like define for me what you mean by small business? Because like. I, a lot of people be like, that feels really counterintuitive. Why wouldn't you want to grow and reach more people? So what do you mean by small business, first of all? Intentional. Um, intentionally small. , I always say, I don't believe that you can scale magic and I want to create magic for people.
And I think that there's plenty of big businesses out there. There's plenty, plenty. You can go anywhere. You can get [00:11:00] anything, anywhere. Um, But uh, I think what we do is is precious and I want to keep it that way. I also think that Our customer. I'm not kidding. Like this isn't I'm not just saying this is literally the reason we exist and why I keep doing what I do, working my face off with a tiny team day after day.
Um, I don't have to do that. We could be big, but I want this to be. A brand forever, like it's not just I'm not just doing it. I knew from the beginning. I'm not just doing it to sell I never wanted to raise capital and by the way I had friends coming up with me at the time when I was starting Sunday forever That were raising capital and going the VC Route and I thought I knew that wasn't for me, but it's great.
It's great, right? But I think what's important for people to know is that there's a million ways to build a business and so The shiny thing I already did that like [00:12:00] I saw what that's all about Firsthand and I knew exactly what I didn't want. I wanted to create not that brands that do that aren't meaningful I'm not saying that at all, but I wanted it Sunday forever to be A meaningful, emotional, almost intimate customer relationship kind of brand where I'm, to this day, if you get in the DMs, it's me.
I post every single thing, which is why I haven't been posting that much. I've been spread a little bit thin. So listen there's good things about it and there's, there's not so great things about it, but I also have full control and I can do what I want when I want and I'm not that interested.
And the thought of me sitting in a boardroom, which I did for many, many years at my corporate job in front of a bunch of men getting their opinions just didn't do it for me. And I don't, I don't want someone's money. I want to be in control of my [00:13:00] destiny. So what does your team look like? Like who builds this with you?
We've gone through iterations of Cause I've been to, like years ago, I feel like I've been to an office. There were people there. Yes. Oh God. So it's, so we've been through iterations and there was a moment in time where I had a team of like nine or 10 and I kind of let it That's big. I, which is, which taught me a lesson, right?
Yeah. I let it get away from me a little bit, and I didn't like it. , I started to become, in field, disconnected from the brand, losing our way a little bit. That's probably five years in. Then, , I think when the pandemic and we all had to shut down, I, either I had a decision to make. You know, you couldn't have employees, and I wouldn't, right?
, But I made the decision that I'm not going to let this just die. I'm going to go in and run the business 24 7 for however long it takes, and that's just what I did. When [00:14:00] I think back, like, about that time, I don't know how I did it. Our business tripled. Oh, wow. And it was me. Myself and I, my husband a little bit, making boxes because he can't put a label on a candle.
Okay? With his man hands. Okay? There's no delicate anything there. When I had my beauty brand, , years ago, which I sent shut down, but my, when we first started, we were doing all the labels and printing them ourselves. And my husband, I made him a mug that said Chief Label Officer, because that's what we did from like 7 o'clock until like 1 a.
m. Yeah. Labels on bottles. That's what, that's what we did and we would have like the TV on and that was our night. So I totally resonate with the, with the husband jumping in with the, with the boxes. Yeah, yeah, and I had a little wagon that, because you couldn't even take Ubers, thankfully, I only lit like our apartment.
I'm sorry, you had a wagon? What, for delivering stuff? No, no, no. Well, hold on. Kind of. So, not really. Well, during the pandemic, we, no one [00:15:00] was in the building. It was me, myself, and I. And then, like, the drug dealers on the corner. Like, hey guys, it's me. Like, we, we became, like, it was you, it was, and then Uber drive, or bikes.
And me, with my wagon. Going to and from our apartment because that because I needed to take stuff drop it off at the post office And that's literally what I did. It got so crazy that our candle maker who I've been working with forever They had to shut down They're in Massachusetts. And so I'm like, okay, I have no candles.
He literally Shipped me the wax, the oils, the wicks, We did a FaceTime. He walked me Hold on. It's insa When I tell you, it's wild. What kind of Okay, I need to understand, like, what kind of You don't have to give me numbers, but like, what kind of volume are you doing where you are hand making your own candles?
How is that possible? At that time, it was, um, we were probably doing just over 100, 000 a month. Oh [00:16:00] my god. And I was packing everything. May It could be more if I It could be slightly more when I We're Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I think, um, there's actually a piece I think in Beauty Independent that covered it.
Cause someone saw on Instagram and then an editor like covered it because it was that insane. But yeah, so I figured out and I would, make candles like six hours a day and Ted, my candle guy, he's the best, walked me through how to do it. Wow. Yeah. Okay, so what does the setup look like now? You, you said like you've gone through this and the learning there was we need to continue being intentionally small.
Yes, because I believe after the, um, like many of us, right? The collective trauma of what that was, um, didn't really hit me until probably six to eight months later. I'm like, I am. So burnt out on the verge of like a breakdown. This has got to stop So I [00:17:00] stepped away and really started to think about it and and decided okay.
I want to start to scale down That's when I decided I wanted to start to scale down and I have slowly but surely and Now the team so and we also had have a very big space So we still pack and ship every single order from our warehouse And then I have a showroom, uh, on the same floor next door. So we have a lot of space.
So at that time I had around five or six, I think, team members. One real right hand. Everybody else just sort of in and out doing random things, which I love. Because I, another thing about, keeping a company small the way that I'd like to do.
is being super intentional about who's in the space, who's bringing the vibes and protecting my energy. It's a bubble. So I'm pretty selective about who's in the, in the vibe. Love that, who's in the vibe. Um, [00:18:00] and And that was fine. And then my right hand, who I really depended on a ton, and she fell in love during the pandemic and got engaged and traveled the world, and now she lives on the West Coast.
Oh, God. Good for her. Oh, I'm so, I'm so happy for her. She's gonna listen and she's gonna, yeah, but, but it was tough because like, that was my person. Yeah. And once that happened, I thought, okay. This needs to go into a new phase. And then I really started to think about how to scale the team even further down and think about what we needed to sell to make a profit, right?
Because, you know, I could go on and on. But the thing is, it doesn't matter how much money you make if you're not turning a profit. This is like a revolutionary thing that is not spoken about. And it's wild. Why is this so crazy? But it's so, we've all been like, indoctrinated by TechCrunch. [00:19:00] Exactly. And to think that this profit isn't important.
Exactly. And to want to be on the cover of this, that, the other thing. And those things, thankfully. Don't get me excited. Not, I mean, it actually, Forbes did cover us in 20, uh, late 2018, which was a miracle. It was just someone, it was very just random and she loved the brand and did cover us. But like, other than that, you're not.
seeing super small brands getting that. And I think it's, it's, it is, it's, I see why it would be enticing. But to me, there's nothing more motivating than being in control of my life and my time, my energy, and being able to make a living doing things that I love for people who appreciate it. I mean, that sounds really nice.
And it's That's a thing. I'm proof positive that it's possible. It's not easy. Yeah. But if you're willing to work really, really hard, which I am and I always have [00:20:00] been, , and put in the work and do the right thing, then you can, you can make it work. Is your focus on, you know, you spoke about like profitability and, and staying small at the same time.
Like, are you. Are you motivated by, or do you really think about, like, how much can I pay myself from this business? No. I didn't start taking a paycheck, uh, until around, , maybe four and a half years ago? Uh, at all. So you had, like, team members that you were paying? Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. And you weren't, why were you paying yourself?
It, it, I just wanted to put the money back into the, I I wanted to get, and this is how my mind works, I like to have a certain amount of money in the bank. Mm-Hmm. at all times to make me feel safe. Like, I don't like your business bank. A hundred percent. Yeah. I've never taken a dime from anyone ever. Yeah.
And I don't intend to. Mm-Hmm. . Um, but yes, I, I put my team before myself a ton and I think I did learn a lesson there too, that that's [00:21:00] not always the right way to, to go. Yeah. Um. But now I have a certain amount of money that I know that I need to make to contribute to my family. Yeah. And that's what I go for.
Yeah. I could pay myself more, but I, I don't, I put the money back into the business or it stays in my business bank account. Yeah. Are you, so you said like the end goal isn't, um, isn't selling the business, like you want to continue to run this, which is, I think, uh, a really great way to think about it.
Even if a sale does come down the road, I still think it's a great way to think about it. But I'm, I'm looking at your face and you're like, no. I, I, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I would never say never to anything. Yeah. But, um, I think right now I'm in the phase of wanting to just re evaluate and keep sort of getting smaller.
What, this is, this is just like blowing my mind. Keep getting smaller. Yeah. Is that, like, how does, how does [00:22:00] the keep getting smaller thing, like, how does that make your life better? Oh my god, in so many ways. So, when I first started the company, And I would do interviews, people would ask, What's your goal, right?
Is it to sell? Is it this, that, the other thing? And I said, I want to have a cabin in the woods where I have, like, baby animals and I'm just in nature. Okay? In October, uh, of 2020, that dream came true. Mm hmm. Okay? So I have a cabin in the woods where I literally am in nature and I have wildlife, Friends, it sounds insane, but that is my view.
That is like what feeds me, you know I read something recently where in the moments where you're not thinking about the past or being anxious about the future, you're just sort of there, that's happiness. And when I can get that, I just hold on to it and I figured out that after 23 [00:23:00] years of being in New York City, that's where I am at ease.
And so that, that's my goal and just to keep doing that. Um. But maybe even on a smaller scale for less people. Oh my goodness. Okay. I'm really curious about, um, And creating. I, I am a, I'm a creator through and through. I love to think of products that I miss and then create it. All of our fragrances, all of our candles, I've custom made for myself.
And then I'll usually pour like 10 or 20 pieces, offer it up, If it does well, then we go into a bigger production. So I will continue creating. Amazing. Yeah. It sounds like this business is just like a really beautiful creative outlet for you. And, and, uh, and an income. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Sorry. As well as an income, of course.
Um, but it sounds like it's like very creatively fulfilling for you. For sure. It's a purpose. Um, so for people who are listening, who are kind of in the early days and they're kind of maybe where [00:24:00] you're at, where. You're in this chapter of like not being able to, or choosing not to pay for yourself, like pay yourself, um, in the early days, like what are some like practical things about this stage because some founders I speak to, they don't pay themselves for the business and then they do some consulting work on the side.
Which is like very common and sounds very exhausting, but it's very common. Um, what's some like practical advice that you have for people who are in this chapter? Yeah, because money is a thing that we have to have to live, right? Yeah, we need some money, yeah. It's a, it's a concept that we have to live by, right?
Mm hmm. So, um, Uh, and I'm so glad you asked because, again, I think this is something else that no one really talks about, like whether, you know, no one really wants to say, oh, I, I got money from my parents, or this, that, the other thing, I'm like, just say the thing, say the thing, because nothing pisses me off more than someone telling you that, like, brag search story, and then I'm like, your husband is a hedge fund billionaire.
Thank you. And it's, I, the reason why it bothers me is because I think it's so misleading to [00:25:00] other people that want to do this, right? The same reason why I'm passionate about saying you can do it in a smaller way and still do it is the same way and reason why I want to talk, I like to talk about money.
Yeah. So, like I said, the job that I had before, meanwhile, just side note, I grew up with A single mom in Louisiana, very humble, humble beginnings, but I always knew I could work harder than anyone else. And I always had a huge chip on my shoulder. Like at Victoria's Secret, I was surrounded by people that had MBAs and I was the only one that didn't.
So I'm like, let's go. And so that truly, if I'm honest, that's what's driven me to get to where I am. So Cool. Because I, I did really well at that job, and I stocked away my money, and I invested it properly, I had enough money I knew for like three years. Plus, I'm married. Mm hmm. My husband has an income. He works in the music business.
At the time, I was [00:26:00] definitely making more money than my husband. Mm hmm. So, it's not like I was, no, that wasn't the case. It's different now. He's further along in his career, but at the time, no, I was the breadwinner. Yeah. So. I truly stopped getting highlights. I'm not kidding. My Pilates private, like, bye, okay?
Yeah, we're walking now. My toenails were so long, okay? I had claws. Just kidding. But kind of. You know what I mean? I mean, I took it seriously because I respect money deeply. Mm hmm. And I know what it's like to have it, and I know what it's like not to have it. So that's what I, I, I literally parsed out my money every, and, and, you know, it's something that I even had to teach people that work for me.
You know, when you are finally able to get a printed note card, right? And not just a blank one that you have to stamp. You're like, why did you just You mean for your For your business, right? Yeah, for your business. For collateral, right? That's a moment. Yeah. Because we all know what it's like not to be able to meet the minimum.
Mm hmm. [00:27:00] Like, on Vistaprint to get the printed note cards, or whatever, and you have to stamp them. So, you know, it's little things like that. I took everything into consideration. Also, Vistaprint sells the stamps as well, guys. Just FYI. They do? Yes. I, they, I started all my collateral in the beginning was Vistaprint.
Anyhow. Also, they're a sponsor. Do you know that? That's why I said it. Oh, okay.
A little plug there for you. Thank you for that. I like the, the thing, the, the video they did with it, the card sticks on the heel. Yeah. I was like, clever. That's nice. Super cute. So anyhow, but the point is, I would say to the team, You know, let's use a post it, not a card, because you're looking at 20 cents that you just threw down the drain, okay?
Multiply 20 cents by 5, you got a dollar. Do that 20 times, what are we looking at? So you actually have to teach people in your business, and even yourself, look at the products on your shelf like stacks of cash. And so those [00:28:00] are just practical ways you're gonna have to pull back. You might have to get roommates.
It's like, if you want it, you know. Um, if you wanted to, you would. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So you do what it takes. And I was like, I am never going back to that life. I do not care what it takes. And so I was a woman on a mission. Yeah. I love that. I felt the same way. Once I left my full time job and I was working in digital media and um, like I've had some good jobs.
I've had some good bosses. I've had some bad jobs. I've had some bad bosses. But like when it was time to go, it was time to go. And I was never. Like, I was never going back to working for somebody else in that capacity ever again. And I feel like every dollar that, like, comes into my bank account for my business now, like, I am so protective of my company because I'm like, I'm not going back to that.
I'm not going back to that. Yeah. You have to respect the money. And I think, you know, one thing, too, if you are in that place where you are in corporate but you want to leave, a mindset [00:29:00] shift that might help, uh, listeners is that if you are there and you're in that place, treat it like you're learning. And getting paid.
So I literally learned how, like, there was no learning curve for me because I worked in, Victoria's Secret is obviously a retail company, even though I did branding, marketing and creative. I knew how to, um, you know, create margins that were healthy, cost of goods. Think about that. You know, um, all those things that you wouldn't know otherwise.
So you can treat that like your MBA if you're at a company like that. And if you just shift your mind, I'm putting this in my toolbox for later. It's like you're getting paid to learn. Amazing. That's such a good way of thinking about it. I guess if, uh, you know, this stage of the year out in the business, what What does the next few years look like for you for Sunday forever? Less, but better. Okay, and I'm really excited.
Right now, like I mentioned, we have a really big space in Flatiron and I find myself wanting to be [00:30:00] in nature more and more. So that's something that I'm thinking about wrestling with a bit. How I want the business to look, as I say, I want to get smaller, but better. Um, And what that looks like, I'm not exactly sure, but I have a general idea, and I know that I can do anything I set my mind to, because if I look at my past and my track record, there's never been a time where I haven't achieved that, and that's something that one of my, one of my therapists, like I have a whole team, Then a therapist told me, you know, she's like, you know, listen, you know, when you have self doubt, look at your track record.
Because if, if you've never really, really flopped or, I mean, I would have crazy talk, like, what if I lose everything? And I'm blah, blah, blah. She's like, has that ever happened? Yeah. In all your years? No. She's like, well, the odds of it happening, it's, it's, it's Very, it's very small, so I just remind myself that I, I can do it, you know?
I love that. Yeah. Ashley, [00:31:00] thank you so much for coming on Female Found World. You're, so we're gonna have a part two later this week with all of your resource recommendations, but it has been awesome chatting through your story and congratulations on this beautiful business that you built. Thank you. Such a pleasure.
