Dagne Dover
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[00:00:00] Hey, business besties, welcome back to the female founder world podcast. I'm Jasmine. I'm the host of the show and the creator of the female founder world universe. Before we get into the episode today, I want to let you know about an event that we have happening in LA. This is kicking off on the 5th of September.
It's called content camp, which basically just means that we have pulled together A group of the most amazing founders who are building brands led by content and led by community. And we have pulled them all together onto a stage. They're going to be teaching you what they know. We've got roaming content creators.
We're holding it in a really, really beautiful garden terrace. We've got 200 tickets available, honestly. A lot of these have sold out, but we do have a handful left. If you'd like to get your ticket for female founder world LA.
Head to the show notes and we've got a link in there for you now. All right. I'm going to jump into today's episode. I'm chatting with the incredible co founder and COO of Dagnodover, Deepa Kandy. Deepa, [00:01:00] welcome to the show.
You are now entering female founder world with your host, Jasmine Garnsworthy.
Hi, thanks for having me. For people that don't know what you guys are building, talk us through it.
, at Dagnodover, we're a bag and accessories brand That's creating products for people trying to get the most out of life. People that are living multidimensional lives, they need a bag that carries them through that day that's both looks great and is organized. I think I first heard about you guys when, um, you started doing Name a Brain.
Yeah. Was that when things really started? Because that's what I think of when I think of the brand. And that's what most people think of. It's actually funny these days when we tell people that we actually launched with a more traditional work tote, like a more structured, um, both coated canvas and leather totes.
People don't believe us. Or they come to our store or an event and they see, they're like, Oh, I don't even know you made this. I was like, actually, it's where we started. Um, but yeah, in 2017, we launched Neoprene and it really was just when things took off. Wow. Okay. You started the business with two other co founders?
Yes. In 2013, you guys [00:02:00] made around 40, 000, like pretty quickly. How, like what was driving that? Why do you think that it took off? Cause like you said, you didn't have like the, this hero bag, the neoprene thing that you're doing now. So what was it that worked? So back in 2013, Before even like an official launch, we did a pre sale launch and the thought process there was, let's just make sure some people are willing to pay full price for this product we've been thinking about and obsessing over.
And the first 40k came, um, within a pretty short period of time. As you said, we launched the pre sale in March of 2013 and it was literally like with Stripes on our, like, little, like, I don't know if you remember, but there used to be, like, before you could tap to pay, you could swipe to pay. And we had these little, like, plug ins on our phones and our iPads, and we, like, would go to events or to, um, like, even dinner with friends.
And we're like, hey, do you want to buy this bag we've been telling you about? Was that [00:03:00] Square? Square Up? No, you're right, it was Square. Up. Yes. I, I've used this before. I was like, Stripe didn't sound right. I did this before for a pop up years ago when I had a beauty brand and I remember, and like they literally send you this like little thing that plugs into your phone and then It was a little square.
Yeah, It was amazing. You know, now you don't need it, but it was so amazing when it came out. And it felt really gratifying. I'd be like, I'm going Swipe this card like somebody's buying this. And we did that off of really bad pictures of really bad samples. But the first sales came from, uh, we had over a thousand men and women that we had surveyed and focus group to get to this like initial launch products.
We went back to them. We were like, well, now it's going to come to market. Do you want to be part of a pre sale? And it was great because that we did. It funded that initial run of production. It let us know like this is something worth doing and then we officially launched in June of 2013. Amazing. And you raised money at, I know that you've raised money, when did that come into the picture?
Was it before you launched during this pre sale pace? When did that happen? So we started raising [00:04:00] a little friends and family capital right around that time. Yeah. Then over the next year we raised our pre seed round. Amazing. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. So now we are, uh, at this point in the business where you've got a bit of traction, you kind of, you know, know that this is a thing that people want.
What is the next step? Like what happened next? Figuring out how to scale, right? I think one of the biggest things at first was we used to look at our sales and say, how many of the people do we know? Like how many out of the for like people that purchased in this period of time? Do we know? And for a while it was like eight out of 10 we like recognized the name or we're like, oh, and we used to ask, how did you hear about us?
Right. And it was like pretty close. And then over the first year, we went from eight out of 10 being somebody who was connected to us in one way or the other. to not knowing who 8 out of the 10 people were. That's cool. And that was really exciting, right? It meant that it was catching on and people were buying it.
I think what was also interesting, it was 2013, which means like Instagram advertising didn't exist. And it was a [00:05:00] time where you could launch a brand and literally have friends post a referral link on their Facebook page saying, Hey, my friend launched this really cool brand. Check it out. And you saw revenue come in through that.
It was just, I know, or like people would post a Facebook group being like, This sounds amazing. Yeah. Why don't you buy it? And you'd see this revenue come in. It was, it was a very different time. Like, I like to say, because a lot of people that are starting businesses today, they ask, they're like, how did you bring that first revenue?
What did you do the first year? How did you go from a 40k presale to your first million in revenue? And I often have to say, I'm like, it was so different in 2013 and 2014. Certain things were much harder and some things were much easier. And I think the one thing that was much easier. was getting that proof of concept because there was not as much noise.
There weren't as many brands throwing ads at you across all the platforms. So it was easier to cut through that. I think that's something that people are going to say in 10 [00:06:00] years about like TikTok now. You know, I launched them when you could go easily go viral on TikTok and every single brand hadn't figured out TikTok shop yet.
And so I think, you know, it might not be the same opportunity, but there's still some. There's always something of the time that is going to be your unfair advantage when you launch. And I just think it's about like figuring out what that is and trying it, but that's it. Such an amazing time to kind of launch a consumer brand and very, very cool.
[00:07:00]
, I want to talk a little bit about this. Isn't like the super sexy stuff, but I find it really interesting. At one point you decided that you needed to shift your production [00:08:00] from New York to Asia and. This is something that I see people talking about. We've got like a group chat with thousands of business owners in there and like a lot of the conversations are around production, manufacturing and figuring that out because it's not something that you can very easily Google.
How did you make that shift and how did you know that it was the right time to kind of scale up your production and move it out of the U. S.? So we, from the time that we started production and started sourcing factory partners and vendors, we knew that we had to dual process. So we actually ran like parallel paths.
We were Finding a local manufacturer here in New York, but then at the same time, we're like, who are going to be our factory partner? So I think the important thing is you have to set both up because you also should believe this is going to scale. And then you don't want to have a massive lag between when you hit the moment of scale and when you can actually scale.
And so [00:09:00] we were running both. So we were dealing with. Like, small production, manufacturing in New York, in the Gar actually, in the Garment District. Really not far from where we are right now. Pretty much exactly where we are. Pretty much right. Spent a lot of time in this neighborhood. Our first office was around the corner.
Because we needed to be close to where we were manufacturing. And it was also where rent was affordable at the time. And, but we were also getting on a plane and going to Vietnam. And visiting factories there and really trying to figure out how do we build that a scalable long term supply chain. And in terms of when you hit the point of scale, I think there's two major factors in it.
The first is when you max out the capacity of your existing facilities. So we quickly were, we were basically on constant back order when manufacturing in New York, which was a great thing because we knew this business was building. There was momentum. People wanted to buy this, but we weren't able to keep up with production.
And frankly, our partners here, they were like, you need to go to Asia. You need to do [00:10:00] that. And, um, they had done this. Actually, we worked in manufacturers that had done this with Kate Spade, Rebecca Minkoff, like a lot of other handbag brands that have, you know, scaled over the years. So they were just like, you have something you need to move.
Um, but then also it's when you can afford it because your minimums. increase significantly when you go from small batch production locally to a major manufacturer abroad. What's like the difference if you're talking local small batch what can you running 10 to 50 units at a time then you were talking about 300.
300 like minimums per SKU. So it's a big difference and payment terms, right? And how are you going to pay for that inventory? And for us, we had to fundraise to be able to fuel that, but having the initial sales and the traction helped us raise those funds. Get to Asia, get set up and then build off of that.
Amazing. So let's get back to the fundraising piece because [00:11:00] something that I think is really interesting about your story is, um, first of all, how you filled that first round and how that happened. And then I'm a little bit, I'm still pretty curious about how you, uh, continue to fundraise as the business grow and how you've been thinking about that.
But let's start in the early days about that first fundraiser. So in the early days, we didn't raise venture capital when we were doing it. Everybody else was raising venture capital. We pitched everyone. We met with everyone, but something that didn't sit well with us was that the vision that we had for the business, both financially and as a brand, didn't align with what these investors were saying.
So we were talking about building a profitable business at a time when everybody was shucking talking about exactly about growth at all costs and we know we'd rather build a business that's sustainable for the long term. rather than get big fast. And so what we ended up doing was raising a lot of the capital in the initial years.
And we've continued a version [00:12:00] of this as our core guiding principle for fundraising even as we've grown and scaled. And that is this concept of patient capital. And patient capital is capital that obviously wants to see your business thrive and grow. But the slope of that growth curve maybe doesn't matter as much.
It's more about knowing that that business is going to be around and eventually have some sort of great liquidity moment, right? Because if you're bringing in investors, they need to see a return on their capital. But I think an important thing you need to think about is what is this investor's horizon on when they want to see a certain return on capital and what is that expected return versus How patient are they?
So we brought in a lot of patient capital, whether it was friends and family, angel investors, high net worth individuals. And then as we grew as a brand and we had to raise new rounds of financing to support our growth, um, it turned into strategic [00:13:00] investment arms of corporations or funds or, um, family offices and things like that.
And so to this day, we've not ever raised a traditional VC round. We have raised rounds along the way. And what I love is we have, we get along really well with our investors. They're some of our biggest supporters, biggest champions. And when things are tough, we get together, we figure it out. When things are great, we all celebrate, but we are All on the same page and have the same vision of what the future looks like for the business, for us as founders, for our employees, and for them as investors.
And it really comes down to we all have built into valuations that are reasonable enough that means that the investors will see the type of return that they want to see in the long term, but it also isn't, um, but it also gives the business credit for what we've built.
So when you think about, okay, you're on this different track for [00:14:00] um, fundraising and growth for the business, how do you think about how that impacts like, Your life is you're building the business because what I'm, what I'm trying to say, what I think is really interesting is like for a really long time, what we read was like business insider and tech crunch talking about this like very specific founder path and like growth trajectory.
And that was kind of like what business is for like a really long time. And I think a lot of people got that in their head as like, this is what it means to build a successful business. Meanwhile, 99 percent of businesses in the country, like don't have any investors and are profitable, like not profitable, but that's what they're striving towards.
And it's just a different track. And like a lot of people run their businesses for many years. And so you can't work a hundred hours a week for 10, like 15 years on a business with actually no potential liquidity event, because that's not the kind of company that you're building or that's not the track that you're on.
[00:15:00] Yeah. Um, how has the way that you've like funded the business and your, um, and your plans for growth, like, how has that impacted how you approach the business as a founder? Are you someone who is like, you know, working these crazy hours? Do you feel like you've got some balance in your life? What does that look like for you?
Your face just then when I said the word balance was like, lol. Balance is a good word. Um, it's an interesting word. I think. You have to work hard no matter what.
I think what is nice about the way we have raised funding is that how we work is different than probably how we would work if we had gone after the traditional venture capital dollars. So I think we'd be working the same type of hours. It would be tireless. It would be crazy, but. We, first of all, as founders, the three of us are really aligned on what we want and what the long term [00:16:00] looks like.
And so we're always focused on like our North Star and what's that ultimate goal. And our investors have the same perspective. And as long as we're all working towards that, we're good. I do believe that if we had taken a different funding route, there would probably be friction. between what the investors were wanting in the short term and what we wanted for the long term.
And so having that alignment at least means that like we believe the work we're doing is meaningful. And so I think it, um, while it's tiring and while it is your entire life, and I don't think you can get past that no matter who you are as an entrepreneur, um, at least it feels more fulfilling and in line with like your personal goals.
The other thing I'm curious about is team building and how you've kind of built this team from the beginning because like three co founders you think okay well if you've all got different skill sets maybe you can handle things for a while but when did you make the first [00:17:00] hire and how did you decide who that was going to be and then what did that kind of So I'm going to give you a little bit of background on what our first two hires look like over the next few years.
So our first two hires are very interesting because they're two different types of like first hires that I think are important to make and prioritize. Going back to three co founders, it was, it was really nice. We were able to get the business along for a while because we Very different skill sets. Um, and so we were able to divide and conquer and really manage and we had a lot of like interns helping us, sometimes friends, things like that.
And so our first hire ended up being by chance and more of a jack of all trades, kind of like throw me in or Jill of all trades, throw me in. I can help with anything type of person. She's still also with us at the company. That's cool. , she was doing a career transition and just came to help. And has never left in the end.
And the other first hire me made was an important one in that she [00:18:00] filled out a hole in our combined skill set. So between the three of us, we had a lot of strengths and a lot of core competencies. But the area that we were like, you know, we just continue to be out of our depth, it's sourcing and production.
None of us had a background in it, we were figuring it out as we went along, and I think we were doing a good job, but we were like, we need somebody who's an expert here. Because sourcing production is the type of thing you can't just figure it out. There are deep relationships. It is seeing things over and over again.
Expensive mistakes. Exactly. And so the first hire that we were going to invest in was that and we ended up lucking out because we'd posted a job for somebody with three to five years worth of experience because that's what we could afford. Yeah. And then we had this amazing woman come to us who, you know, was like had had 15 plus years of experience, was amazing.
And she was looking for a better work life balance, more, excitement. [00:19:00] in her job. She'd worked at a lot of big brands and she thought that she could find that with us. And so there was a really nice balance there. And she's also still with us. And so I feel like those two women really, to me, represent what you need.
You need somebody who's like, I'm happy to do anything and I'm going to figure it out. And this, that woman has turned into our head of operations, right? She's, Single handedly shifted us to two different ERP platforms. Like, there are so many things that, like, done multiple warehouse shifts. Just, you throw something at her, she figures it out.
And then the other is a true expert. And what was great was both have been instrumental in how we scale and grow the business. That's such good advice. How many people work for the brand now? Um, a little under 60, which, like, I don't still believe. Are they all in New York? No, we are, um, a hybrid team is the best way to say it.
So we do have an office in New York. Some of the team members come in, but we're pretty distributed across the country. Amazing. When you kind of, um, [00:20:00] think about someone who is. Um, I think it's really now thinking about like hiring, firing, building team and, and like upleveling themselves as a leader. What advice do you have for someone who's in this position of maybe they didn't lead teams in the job that they had before they started a business.
And now all of a sudden, like there are a lot of people's boss, you know, it's like a real mental shift. How do you, What advice do you have for people who are trying to, like, overcome that? What helped you work through that? If you ever had to work through it, maybe it came naturally to you. Did it for me, doesn't for me.
You have to work at it. Yeah. I think the first important thing is you have to have a growth mindset. Yeah. You have to always believe I can do better. I can learn more. Like, I actually always say , every year I age, I feel like I actually know less. Because I think I've become that much more aware of what I don't know.
Yeah. And what I still need to learn. And I think having that mindset is really important where it's like I can always [00:21:00] evolve. There's something somebody else can always teach me and always be. Accepting of advice and feedback, whether you want to hear it or not. And one of the best things you can do to help support all of that is to build your personal board of advisors.
And that can come in the form of mentors, coaches, um, mentorship networks, peers, other founders going through the same stuff as you, um, friends, family, and I think you should also always balance between people who are brutally honest and are just going to tell you how it is. Yeah. and call you out and play devil's advocate and people that are going to be the biggest champions and um, I think the, the mentors is, so I've been very fortunate to be part of some great mentorship networks.
There's one in particular that is, um, industry agnostic. It's all women and you have quite the range in age and experience in industry. But the one thing that is in common is these women are great [00:22:00] leaders and the conversations we have. Transcripts provided by Transcription Outsourcing, better at engaging with my employees, with my peers, et cetera.
And so I think that is a group that I joined right around the same time we started Dagny and I do believe they've been instrumental and always being there. So when I did struggle, I said, you know what? Like I became a COO just. Because I was one of the founders like, how do I actually do this job? I had women to go to that had done that and they were like, well, you need to think about this.
And by the way, I'm here. I'm a phone call away. I will help you. And some of them now are mentoring people on our team and to have groups like that, it's, so invaluable and to make them a priority. That's a piece of advice that I hear a lot. And from people that have built, you know, companies like you have just coming back to the, you need people who have done it to help you do this.
Like you can't just Google this [00:23:00] and figure it out. Like no one actually is born with the knowledge and. you need to ask, have people around who you can ask and also like show you that it's possible because they've done it, you know? And as you get to know people, it also just humanizes and breaks down the, any myths that you have around, Oh, there's like a very special kind of person that has to do this when you actually meet and get to know the people that are doing the thing that you want to do.
And you're like, Oh, you're just a person. Yeah. And I think like the concept of paying it forward is so important. And so like there are founders who have advised us, invested in us, that there's some that, like, we don't make big decisions without getting their counsel, because they've, to your point, they have been there.
And if they have I'm going to talk to you today about how you can learn from someone who has made mistakes or had wins that we can learn from. Why wouldn't we do that? And then we try to be that for other people. I was literally on a call earlier today with a founder that I've personally invested in and, um, you know, they're going to raise around, they've all this stuff going on.
And he's like, I just, I just want to [00:24:00] get it out there. I just want to get it out there. I just, and I was like, Let's take a moment, breathe. I know the feeling of that urgency saying, I want to raise the capital as quickly as possible. I want to start conversations as soon as possible. But I'm like, but I've been there.
I have done that versus let's take a moment. Let's get, create the list of targets. Let's figure out who the strongest connection is to make the introduction. If you don't already have that relationship, let's maybe see how much money you can circle up without. running a full process, right? Like, so that you have momentum, right?
There's all these pieces. And I was like, so just take a breath. I get that urgency. I have been there. I have done that. I have gotten caught up in that, but on this other side, I'm telling you, just a little extra time to plan and lay the groundwork will make a huge difference. And I was like, and I also know that because another founder had told me that at some point, [00:25:00] take a moment, Deepa, breathe.
Yeah. And just having that circle of life if you want to call it between founders. It's so helpful and it also makes you feel seen for what you're experiencing and going through but also makes you know that you're not alone. Yeah that's really good advice. I want to get back to 20, I think it was 2017 when you launched the Neoprene.
You know we spoke a little bit about how that was like a big turning point for the brand and things really blew up after that. How did you decide that you were going to do neoprene? Okay. Where did that come from? I love this story. So I am not our creative, I am not the designer, I am the Excel person. Or as somebody on our team recently called me and everybody on my team, computer people.
Okay. And, um, that was a new one. I'm an, I'm an iPhone person. But it was funny, I was like, I was like, I call myself like a numbers person, like analytics, Excel, [00:26:00] definitely always, but I was like, computer people was a new one. I appreciated it though. And, um. So Jessie, my co founder, I have two co founders, Melissa and Jessie.
Um, Jessie is the Dover, her last name is Dover, of Dagny Dover. She is an amazingly, unbelievably talented designer. She does things I could never even imagine. And I'm just like, all I'm here to do is to help fund and make this happen and bring this product to life and to market. And so we were in Vietnam years ago.
And this is when we were setting up production there, run, doing our first runs of production that we had scaled abroad. And I turned to her and I was like, what's next? Like, what are we going to do next? And she's like, you know, I've been thinking about neoprene. And she'd been wearing it in like bathing suits and things like that.
And she was like, there's something really cool about this material because it wears and falls like a leather, but it's not leather. And it has this functionality to it, right? It's. [00:27:00] You know, weatherproof to a certain extent, it is washable, washable, it is also we were at the peak of athleisure, taking over everything so it's like, well, what are people going to carry as you see this casualization of the workforce.
So we started development on this product line. And now it's become what Dagny Dover is known for. And, you know, we just over the past year have really gone into travel. With this, like, very durable, um, 900D poly material, so it's like, You know, nothing can withstand it. Like the average piece of luggage is made out of 600D poly.
Ours is like that much stronger. Um, yeah. When we do things at Dagny, we do it right. Um, and that's kind of like, we're like, okay, well, what's that material? What's the look of it? How do we now innovate for that part of the industry? And so for us, when we think about function, it's not just about pockets in a bag.
It's about function. Why does this material make this bag more functional for you and how does it help you kind of get to where you need to go and there's [00:28:00] so much love and care that's given to the fabric R& D process that I think often goes unnoticed. Like I get to watch it firsthand, but it's pretty impressive to see how they get there.
Wow. What's the timeline between coming up with a concept like that and actually, you know, product is for sale. Yeah, I think neoprene probably took us a little under two years. Wow. Okay. Um, Travel. That's good for people to know. Stuff takes time, guys. Stuff takes time. We just launched luggage. It took three years.
Yeah. Wow. Mean, if you're going to do it properly, it's going to take time. Exactly. Because you need to have the time to find the right materials. to test all of that, to then sample, and then a large part for us is real people wear testing the products. So getting real time feedback, like our best selling bag is our Indie Diaper Backpack, and one of the best features in this bag is in the front pocket, there's an I think I have one.
I think that's, I think that's what I have. It's the best. Yeah. Yeah. And um, and in the front pocket, there's an extra zipper. Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:00] So that you can easily access wipes, which as a parent I use it all the time. I'm like, oh, do do do do do. I'll be like one hand, like be changing a diaper, get in there, do the whole thing.
And that was a call out that came from real people, like a real parent. We're testing it in one of the last rounds of sampling. And if we just don't listen to that and put things into production, we would never get to the level of this is right. As we want it to be, and then we still always evolve, we do make updates, a good example is with our neoprene products, we started to find out so many people were using them for, for, um, as carry on personal items for travel, like our backpacks and our carry alls, And so then we decided to relaunch all of them with a luggage sleeve in the back, so you could put it on your rolling luggage, and then eventually we were like, well, we should just, you know, Also do the luggage.
So we've done that, but that's how we think about it. We really try to think about the actual day to day life of our customer and then get the product we design into their hands. get their feedback. [00:30:00] You mentioned before that you're the, you know, you're the numbers, excelled. Yeah. That's your, um, that's your like zone of genius.
That's your specialty. How does what you do, how does that influence the outcomes and the creative decisions? And how is that all integrated as someone who does not have a numbers person and fully makes decisions based on vibes? Tell me what I should be doing. So I think the biggest thing is it's a partnership.
Um, and I think we as a founding team and as a company really believe in this. Like we're always like you have to be balanced between the left brain and the right brain. And it's actually what I love about the career that I have built for myself. Yeah. Is I started my career in finance and I was miserable.
Just because I was good with numbers didn't mean I was happy in this job. I'm also married to somebody who works in finance and he loves it and he would do that for the rest of his life. And so I quickly tried to figure out a different path for myself. And I, my first job out of finance was at Club Monaco.
Um, so a fashion [00:31:00] brand doing, um, inventory planning and merchandising strategy. And I, what I quickly learned there was I was able to be good at numbers. I had to forecast sales and inventory needs, but I could be in a creative industry. And so I've always said, how does my analytical mind empower the decision making of my creative partners?
And I think what's important there in creating that partnership is it's from both sides. So if my creative partners are able to explain to me their thought process and what the vibes are telling them, I'm able to say, well, what's the data telling us and how do we marry those two things? And how do we.
balance both. And so I think what's important on the data side and the number side is finding partners who answer the questions, who, um, are very transparent and open with what the data is saying. So rather than being like, we need to focus on profitability and profitability, profitability, [00:32:00] profitability, the way I like to think about it is If we focus on profitability, this is what it enables us to do as a company, and these are the key areas that we can focus on to improve that and to bring everybody in and to break it down and say, if we're not seeing the productivity off of this, then maybe we need to rethink it.
Rather than just saying profitability, profitability, profitability, right? And it's really about the conversation and how you listen to both sides. Another thing that I want to ask you about is retail, wholesale, and that process of launching and expanding that part of the business. Who was your first retail stockist?
How did that happen? It was like around the same time as the neoprene launch, right? Kind of. So prior to that, we did like small boutiques. Yep. And it's like, I would say you have to start somewhere. Yeah. And it was great, because if somebody wanted to check out our product in New York, where it's like where we launched and really focused, there was a boutique or two you could go to and check out the [00:33:00] product.
Um, and that was consignment based at the time, right, because the boutiques, like, they don't have the funding to just buy a ton of inventory as well, so it's a partnership. And then when we launched Neoprene, it really opened a lot of doors for us, because it was new, it was different. It was something that larger wholesalers believed they, that, um, Complimented their other, what else they were merchandising, the rest of their assortment.
So, we were ending up in Equinox stores, right? Because you could now use this bag as a gym bag and a work bag. We started Nordstrom. So, what we found was we were offering something they didn't currently have. And that made it easier for us to get in. But then also we had been around just long enough that we also had a very successful launch.
And this is something I like to tell new founders often cause they're like, but how did you get into Nordstrom? Yeah. How did you get onto Shopbop? I was like, it's less about the how it's often about the when, because you don't want to do it so [00:34:00] early that you're now struggling to get people to buy your product.
What's really great is almost every time we've launched with a new partner, We, it's been at the right stage for us as a business, for who their customer is, that we've had successful launches, which means that you're able to grow and build off of that. And so really thinking about who is right when is important.
So there was a time where small boutiques were the right partners. And what's interesting is we're actually doing small boutiques again because we're finding there's certain geographies that you can't get to if you're not in a small boutique, right? There's great vacation destinations where there's no large retailer present.
So you actually want to be in the gift shop there. And so it's interesting to see us kind of coming full circle, but it's really always thinking about where's the customer you're going for. That's a really interesting insight. I was speaking with, um, Uh, Natalie Holloway, she's the founder of Bala and, and talking to her about their stocking strategy and they're in, you know, Target and big retail, but she also has a [00:35:00] really big, uh, indie presence as well with smaller boutiques.
And for example, like they're sold in some fitness studios and that just, you know, It just obviously makes so much sense. A lot of these studios are using their equipment, beautiful Platy studios, the right customer. Of course they would sell there. So I think it's really interesting how you can get creative with that and it's not kind of just, Oh, we'll just go in any small store, but you can like be so intentional about it.
How does it compliment a, uh, you know, more of a 360 wholesale strategy? And to that, I think it's important to think of wholesale as not just a revenue channel, but also a marketing channel. Totally. And that's what I thought about it, right? So like, I think Equinox was, has. Literally, to this day, it's great because even if we don't get the sale in that moment, it indicates to that customer, this is the right product for me because I live that lifestyle.
And it's really cool. Um, and we, it is interesting to see when we've seen shifts in the business, like meaningful shifts in the business and how that [00:36:00] aligned with certain. wholesalers. And then obviously there's a lot of other things that we've done, but we, we, we were, we're often able to correlate that.
Wow. That's really interesting. Deepa, thank you so much for coming on the show and telling us all about how you're building the business. It's just incredible. We're going to have a part two later this week where you're going to share all of your resource recommendations. So guys check back in, that's going to drop on Wednesday, but thank you so much for chatting.
It's very inspiring to hear how you're building Dagnodova. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan. So this was great.
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