Mayssa - BEHAVE
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[00:00:00] Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the Female Founder World podcast. I'm Jasmine, the host of the show and the creator of the Female Founder World universe. Before we get into the show today, I want to remind you that we have tickets on sale for our September event in LA. We have incredible speakers like the founder of Set Active, Bala, Live Tinted.
We've got Brand Activations and it's being hosted in honestly the most beautiful garden terrace. Okay, so today I'm chatting with Maysa Chahata, the founder of Behave. Maysa, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to be here.
You are now entering female founder world with your host, Jasmine Garnsworthy.
Okay, for people that don't know Behave, what are you guys building? What are you creating?
Yeah, so we're building the future of candy. We make better candy. And what that means for us is that all of our products are low in sugar. That means that they're diabetic [00:01:00] friendly, keto friendly, PCOS friendly. If you're cutting back on sugar or you're monitoring your blood sugar, our products are going to be perfect for you.
But we also never use any artificial ingredients. We have a completely clean label. So you never have to worry that you're going to turn the label and you're going to find aspartame or erythritol or maltitol. These products sweeteners that can be really harsh on your stomach and are just completely artificial.
We use plant fiber, allulose, and monk fruit to sweeten our candy and it always tastes delicious. That's our main promise to our customers. It actually tastes so good. So I really like this sour. Oh yeah, the sour, the sour star. I know you're not supposed to have a favorite child, but my favorite child is my sour star.
It's really good. Okay, so your background, you worked in partnerships, you were like Uber and SoulCycle, is that right? Yeah, my career Spend like a lot of different industries, but always in consumer. So it started at the NFL and the sports world. Then I was at Uber. Um, then really what got me into the health food world was I was, uh, first 10 employees at daily harvest.
I worked alongside the founder, Rachel there. That was [00:02:00] such like a pivotal experience for me. And that was what really exposed me to the health food space. I felt so excited about all the cleaner, healthier options that were coming out. And it really made it so clear to me that. candy was lacking that better option, um, then I had a stint at SoulCycle before launching the business.
Very cool. Talk me through what the opportunity was that you saw and like where you were at in your life when you decided to launch a business because big decision. Yeah, absolutely. So it took me a few years of kind of ruminating on the idea before taking the plunge and jumping off the cliff and leaving my job to do it.
I sort of was tinkering with it on the side while I was at Daily Harvest and that kind of rolled into uh, Um, while I was, uh, at SoulCycle. Ultimately, you know, I really was feeling the impact of the food that I was eating on myself. So I was on sort of a personal journey to try to eat cleaner, make better food choices.
And frankly, it was so hard. Like the reality, I don't know if I would have called it this at the time, but [00:03:00] now I fully can identify. I had a sugar addiction, really, really bad one. I think it stemmed from the fact that growing up, my dad was diabetic, so we had no sweets, no sugar, no junk food in the house.
Then I think when I left home, I almost like went to the opposite extreme. I would really binge on sugar as like an emotional crutch. When I'd had a bad week, I'd be like, well, now I get to eat anything I want to make myself feel better. Um, and it was really having these negative consequences on my health.
My skin, my mental health especially, um, so that was sort of what started this journey for me to try to eat cleaner. But then what I felt was if you want to eat cleaner, you basically have to stop eating the things you love. It's like all or nothing. And that was kind of what made me feel like there was something missing here.
As far as where I was in my life, I was really climbing the ranks quite quickly on the corporate ladder. Um, having some incredible opportunities that came to me, like the opportunity with Daily Harvest to work alongside the founder and then, um, in a pretty [00:04:00] big exciting role at SoulCycle working alongside the chief commercial officer.
Um, but Once I had noticed this gap, I just couldn't shake it, and eventually I really had to, through a lot of therapy, a lot of like, affirmation, you know, read my first book about manifestation, and was like, okay, I can't shake this idea, I need to give it a shot, and that's when I jumped off the cliff and quit my job to work on Behave full time.
I remember being at a dinner with, um, I think it was with Barbara, maybe when she had the agency. And so, um, Barbara is the founder of Ceremonia and like a good friend of yours, and she's been on the show before, and kind of going around the table, this was years ago, and everyone kind of sharing what they're working on, introducing themselves.
And I remember you saying, um, I'm going to launch this candy brand and like sharing the vision and I don't think you'd really like started anything yet. You're definitely still in your full time job and so it's very cool to like come full circle and see where you are [00:05:00] today. Oh my god, I could cry at you saying that because now I'm like.
Thinking back to that dinner. Mm hmm. And I remember saying it lately. Yeah, now I remember it so clearly because I remember saying it and it was Probably the first time I had said it out loud because and it was that is like such a pivotal turning point when you are going from Being in your corporate career to feeling you're starting to feel ready to go full time and I was like, I have to say this I was nervous and I said it and then that is when you start like speaking it into existence but I have Maybe now I have also a little bit of an alternate perspective.
I think speaking it into existence is really important, but now I also have a parallel belief, which is that you still have to protect the idea when it's new, and you have to be mindful of who you share it with. I mean, that was such a safe space. It was a dinner of, like, women who are so encouraging, so positive.
Obviously, Baba is such a cheerleader, friend, and founder, and curates the best groups of people. But, like, you know, maybe at dinner with your [00:06:00] girlfriends where Some, maybe there's a little bit of evil eye around the table, like being mindful of who are those people you're going to share the idea with when it's still like a little seedling, you can almost picture a plant, it's like a seedling can get stomped out so quickly, make sure your plant has taken roots before you start kind of sharing it with everyone is something that I've learned, even as I've been building the business with, you know, things that we're doing within the business, I want to speak things into existence, but only when I have full conviction in them.
Oh, I love that. That's such good advice
[00:07:00]
I want to talk a little bit about the early days of the business and getting things off the ground. But to give people some like context about where you're at now, I think it's helpful to [00:08:00] share some milestones and things Um, you've done recently and you know, I don't want to gloss over all of the things that have happened to get you to where you are now, but you've had some like really exciting announcements recently.
You just brought on a celebrity investor. Tell us about that. Yes. So we recently announced that Busy Phillips is joining the Behave, uh, girl gang as an investor and advisor. And it just happened so organically. I mean, We were working with an investor of ours who is really connected in the celebrity space and we had sort of said like, okay, we feel ready and we have an appetite to bring a celebrity into the business in some way, shape, or form.
I will say I was very detached from how it would look. I was very open to like, never, not ever having a celebrity in the business. And I was very open, I was open to having a celebrity come in, in even a, um, really, you know, Deeply integrated way, like almost at a co founder level. Um, and I was open to anything in between.
Uh, and open to a lot of different types of people and Busy's name came up at one point as we were kind of brainstorming and I was like Busy is [00:09:00] so spot on. Like it was an immediate yes. Um, she felt so aligned for the brand, you know, our brand is about you know, having a better option for candy, making better choices when you can, but still indulging, still living your life.
Um, as a brand, we really show up outspoken. We, um, you know, shout from the rooftops, the things that we care about, the charities that we donate to, and Busy very much lives her life in the same way. And then like, it was very much one of those universe, you know, Synchronicity moments, because then when we did get connected to her team, she came back and was like, I'd love to have the conversation.
I've actually had this candy before they sell it in my local coffee shop that I go to every day. So, you know, paying attention to when like the universe is nudging you in a certain direction. Um, because, you know, we had conversations with over the years, we've talked to many different celebrities, many teams, all different, you know, industries, sizes of audiences, et cetera.
And at the end of the day. I'm so glad we didn't force any of those conversations where maybe the person like had never tried the [00:10:00] product or they try, we send them the product and then we didn't hear from them for six months and then they circled back and it's like, but were you really excited about the product and the business?
Whereas with busy, the whole conversation was in such flow. Um, and she just brings so much, like she brings really strong, like creative ideas and perspective to the table. Um, so we're really excited just to tap her even for that creative vision of how can we show up in the world? How can we communicate this product?
To, women, to moms, she has two kids, , to, the audience that she knows so well, which is her audience, and, um, we've already just had a lot of really fun creative brainstorming with her. That's very cool. How did you find, like, you worked with an agency or someone to help you connect and do this partnership, right?
Yeah, so we, so the agency is, or the firm is called Parallel, and I, recommend them so highly. I loved working with their team. It was, I, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this as a It's not to exclude anyone, but they're an all female team. I love that. Um, and we just clicked from day [00:11:00] one. Like they just understood what we were trying to do.
They believed in our vision and they were really excited and they had that vision of let's bring in that right, highly aligned celebrity. Um, and it will help just build the business even further. So, um, and what I will say too, is we've been approached over the years by so many consultants and agencies that will like do the celebrity talent matching.
It's such a hot button issue and it's almost becoming this like cottage industry for founders and a lot of exploitation, I would say, happening in it. I was quoted one time. 12, 000 a month, um, no guarantee to match you with a celebrity, to act as an advisor. So they actually wouldn't even manage the conversations with the celebrities.
They would just like put the strategy together and then you need to go out and find the celebrities. Um, so I just say that to be mindful because I think that I'm very lucky because I managed 12, 000. talent and celebrity partnerships at Daily Harvest. Yeah. So I'd already been through that ringer and I kind of knew what works, what doesn't work.
I knew what's a waste of time, what's actually meaningful. Um, [00:12:00] and Parallel are the real. Like they, um, put an initial strategy together. They were really mindful too. I think a lot of people who say they'll match you with a celebrity, it's a spray and pray approach. Get the celebrity with the most Instagram followers, right?
Or get the Kardashian. Like, and there's a time and a place to bring in a Kardashian, but. With Parallel, it was so strategic. For us, we knew that our number one KPI with us bringing a celebrity was direct revenue and sales. So it was really important for us to connect with a talent who had direct access to their audience.
So podcast, um, you know, TV show, uh, and Instagram and a social media presence where they actually speak to the audience. Not just that they post like fashion photos or they post their movie, like a lot of actresses, they just post their film projects. Busy is like on her Instagram story every day talking to her audience.
So we were really looking for that. Um, and Parallel were just so pivotal in like keeping us on track with the strategy. Of course, I had the day where I called them. It was like mid air [00:13:00] as to where I was like, What if we got Taylor Swift? Then Barbie movie came out. What if we got Margot Robbie? And they're like, Margot Robbie's great.
You are going to need to spend 10 million to amplify Margot Robbie with your brand because she's not posting, look at the candy I eat every day on her channel. And I think it's so important to have a partner who really understands the space so you don't get distracted and lose focus and You can really burn yourself that way.
Really interesting. From your experience, both obviously like doing this yourself now working with Parallel, but also you've been in this partnership space for ages. What does a good like deal look like? Like, are you, how should people think about structuring this? You said 12 grand, one agency quoted you to help run the strategy, which is wild to me, but can you just pay commission to an agency?
Like, how does this work? Yeah, it, it really depends. And there's such a spectrum, but I think. Really what you want to be looking for as a small business is to get as much done with equity as you can. [00:14:00] Um, cash is obviously so expensive to the business. And the other reality is that as a small business with most talent, you will never be able to generate and give them an amount of cash that means anything to them.
Right? Like with most talent, even if, like, if we could come up with a hundred thousand dollars, which would be like a business, breaking, business changing amount of money for us. You know, most talent can make 100, 000 in an afternoon, right? If they're a musician, they can make that in a nightclub appearance.
If they're an actress, they can make it in a day's work. So, um, you really need to bring someone in who is excited about the vision, right? I, there's an amount of equity that we're willing to put on the table, which, first off, they're excited about the journey, right? Like, they want to be in this space.
space. A lot of the talent that we spoke with over the course of discussions, and I think also in our conversations with Busy, is like, we wanted to bring someone in who sees themselves as growing beyond their core talent and their core niche, right? Like, Yeah. [00:15:00] Yeah. Who wants to, like, do you want to be the Oprah of, you know, whatever feel, like, whatever niche you speak to, like, the business mogul and the, and the this and the this, so, like, the multi hyphenate, or Serena Williams is a great reference as well, like, going from being that Oprah.
Hardcore athlete to now touching so many spaces and really being that mogul personality. Finding that talent who sees themselves in that way, because that is going to drive them, even when the business isn't doing well, they're like, well, I get to go sit on a panel and say, I'm the investor and advisor to this female founded business.
And that means something to me. Versus, again, a hundred grand, so much money to you, nothing to them, they're not going to get out of bed for that amount of money. So, yeah, as far as you can, um, bring people around the table in equity, and then obviously incentives are aligned, everyone is aligned, um, to make the deal go farther.
I think also having some kind of structure for like equity. equity bonuses. So if like the business hits certain milestones that there's like additional equity or additional compensation [00:16:00] available, that could also be cash. Maybe at that point, it's like when the business hits a hundred million dollars in revenue, there's a million dollar cash bonus.
Some, you know, I don't know if that's a good structure. Depends who you're talking to. But, um, point being that also gives them an incentive to stay aligned. If the contract is for two years or three years, then, well, I know that if I keep being involved with the business and promoting the business even beyond the agreement, uh, term, there's still something in it for me.
So being mindful of how you structure and the vesting structure and the milestone structure and the agreements as well. And then how does it work with like the middlemen? Middlemen can be looking for cash or equity. Again, like I just think as much as you can have people who are willing to be involved on an equity basis, I will say like those, these firms, you know, parallel with us, like they're putting in real manpower and real hours.
I'm not here to say, you know, I referenced this agency I spoke with that was it. offering like 12 grand a month with no guarantee. I'm not to say that there's no world where you should pay any amount [00:17:00] of cash. I think the amount of cash you pay into this should be, there should definitely be contingencies on the deal getting done.
Um, and then it should be an amount of money that is not going to break the bank. Like, I think this is where I think it gets exploitative is people who are selling founders who are very early in their business and don't have a lot of cash that your business and your life is going to change if you get on a celebrity.
That also I think is a fallacy. Like there are. There are maybe 10 or 20 celebrities in the world who are going to fundamentally change the face of your business. Other than that, it is one lever of your marketing strategy and of your brand building strategy. And I think anyone who's trying to sell you otherwise and sell you this delusional dream that, like, all your problems are gonna go away if you get a celebrity on board, That's where I think the kind of exploitative like side of this space comes in.
I think you've been really clever about um, taking this moment and like making a lot out of it. Like you've been really [00:18:00] clever with the creative that you've been sharing. You filmed like a beautiful video series with Busy and I feel like I've been seeing this news kind of everywhere. What are some of the things that you did to just be like, okay, this is a, this is like a big brand moment.
Let's. make sure everyone knows. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing is like, you really want to capitalize on that launch moment. That's going to be the biggest moment. I think it's really important to get press involved. Um, so, you know, pitching out an exclusive to your own press and publication. So again, like really shout out parallel, like parallel, how to press team that, um, pitch this story out.
We, we do not have press. in house. We've worked with different agencies and consultants over the years. Right now, we typically will bring in, uh, PR consulting around a specific moment. We don't have ongoing, , press support right now. Which I think makes sense. Like having a PR agency on retainer does not make sense.
Yeah. Like early stage brands. For early stage, I completely agree. , It was a really impactful strategy for us around launch. So I [00:19:00] totally recommend to founders like that's a good place to invest around launch dependent on what kind of launch you're doing. Like we kind of did, you know, and again, it was a different time.
There was so much money out in the market. it was kind of mid COVID, but like. CPG and food brands were really blowing up, and there was a lot of appetite to write about them, , and to write about those launches, so it made sense. Like, now, most businesses, I would not advise to, like, go and do a big investment in PR, , just at the very early stages.
But anyways, going back to Busy and our announcement, it was kind of, twofold. One was the press and, you know, we pitched that out. And the second was our own content and the content we created. And I think this really comes back to like finding that partner who really is coming into your business as a true partner.
Busy was down to show up we kind of scheduled the whole thing pretty quickly and basically just like riff me and her sit on a couch and like go back and forth and chit chat on camera. And it was like, You know, we briefed them ahead of time, but it was [00:20:00] really laid back. Um, and she was just down to like, get on camera, like have these fun moments, you know, those turned into the content that we pushed out around launch.
And I think they were really impactful because it was so authentic. There weren't 15 people from her team. They're like nitpicking every question, nitpicking every moment of the, um, of the back and forth conversation and of the content. , They were just really willing to, like, jump in. They understood that we're in a startup environment.
That's another thing, I think, with bringing in talent. There's this idea that, like, you need to bring in that, I just always use the Kardashian as, like, the example of, , that massive celebrity. When you bring in a Kardashian, you need to be ready to spend 100, 000 just on the photo shoot. Hair and glam alone is going to be 20 grand.
So, , there's a time and place for that, but is your business ready for that right now? I think just being really mindful of that, um, versus, like, is there a talent who just is a little bit more easygoing, laid back, where, you know, [00:21:00] they're willing to try different things out? That's, like, very much, , what we're learning.
And, you know, starting to build a relationship with Busy and that's made her such a perfect partner for us in the stage we're in. So cool. Something that I think is really important to flag as well is you launched in 2019. It's 2024. Like you're bringing someone on now. Now is the right time. Like you've been building this for some time.
You've got a lot of learnings. Let's talk a little bit more about your story and how you got to like this point where you're ready to do this and maybe why it wouldn't have been the right time three years ago okay, let's talk about summer 2021. You kind of started testing retail.
What, what happened there? What, what was that like? Yeah, so I'm actually going to rewind. So we launched the brand into market in August of 2020, peak COVID. We launched entirely direct to consumer. The retail world is totally in disarray at that point, mostly only pushing, um, essentials. Uh, as they should have been.
So, we come into market in e comp. We [00:22:00] have a very successful launch, and we are immediately, within like a week, clearly going to sell out. Then, we realized that our manufacturer, which was primarily a vitamin manufacturer, and was, you know, manufacturing nonstop day and night elderberry flower immunity gummies because it was middle of the pandemic, um, was not going to be able to produce for us for several months.
Um, and then we also had received some customer feedback that we also wanted to incorporate. So we decided while, you know, while we wait for this production, let's also update the formula. So we made a change to our formula. It took us several months to get back into stock. That was a really just like emotionally challenging and draining time because we had all this pent up customer demand that we weren't able to capitalize on.
Um, we're sitting on our hands a bit, but then when the new product is ready, um, we come back into the market sort of spring going into the summer of 21. That's when we go into retail fast forward a year from there, kind of spring, summer 22, we really take a [00:23:00] moment to say, okay, We need to pause. Like, we had been running so fast, and, you know, uh, there was a, there was a kind of brand value we had as a team at Uber, which was move fast and break things.
I was indoctrinated in that startup culture to move fast and break things, and we were moving fast, and we were breaking everything. Our supply chain was super broken. In, uh, reformulating the first time we had improved on certain things, but then we lost other things. So then the product quality, I would say overall had gone down and we weren't really hitting that like super satisfying candy experience anymore that V1 had had.
We were having issues with manufacturing and quality control, um, and then a lot of our and around the same time was the iOS 14 update that everyone loves to talk about, but that completely changed the face of our marketing channel strategy. And, and I, we really just had to say, like, I will say to just speaking very openly, like, When we hit that summer 22, we had spent one [00:24:00] year in direct consumer, a year in retail.
We'd learned so much, but it had been so hard. Like I also was reaching a point of burnout where I was like, I am so depressed. I'm having such a hard time. Like, this is, this is just not. tenable. I can't continue like this. I had lost faith in the product because we really were at a point where it was like pretty much 50 50 if someone loved it or hated it.
, I won't say hated it, but if they loved it or were just like quite indifferent to it, which is just not what you want for can, it's candy, you know? , but at the same time we had learned so much and I just still had so much belief in this category and that we were onto something and that we like really were showing up with integrity in a category that has so much.
So little integrity built into it. And I felt like there's space for this, like female founded, queer, , minority female run company in this category that is so outdated, so run by, white men who are. Of a different generation, different time, nothing [00:25:00] against them. It's just a different time, you know?
And so I really had a lot of conviction myself and my co founder Emily, that we wanted to give it another push. But what that meant for us was like, okay, three months of learning and listening, we did a ton of customer insight and feedback. We were getting on one on one phone calls with our customers that were subscribed.
Like, why do you subscribe? Why do you love the product? What would you change about it? What we walked away with was the price was too high. We were selling at 5 a bag. We. because of how high our costs were. But we basically said unless we can get the costs down and lower the price, it doesn't make sense to continue.
And we had to improve the taste and the experience of the candy. Like we, we walked away with a new mission statement, which was, we need to make candy. That is, Too good to be true in order to remove as much sugar as possible from the food system. And I think it was really helpful to solidify that as our mission statement, because then we were able to point everything back to it.
And what we did is we burned the entire business down. We reformulated. Reviewed our entire [00:26:00] supply chain from top to bottom, we found every cent and penny of cost saving, we passed every cent that we saved in our supply chain on to the customer, we were able to bring our cost down from, or our price on the product from 5 to 3.
49. When it was all said and done, we had shifted into a new manufacturing partnership, um, reformulated, also being mindful to always maintain the integrity of our ingredient list. But there were some small tweaks we were able to make to save, , some cost on the product and the formulation. Um, and then we also just gathered a ton of learning around our brand positioning and our marketing.
Like, why do our customers really come to us? Who is our customer? Um, and why do they want to repeat it and buy a second time? And we redesigned the website and the packaging to lean more. more heavily into those learnings. Um, so we thought that whole rebuilding phase would take like three to six months that ended up taking a year, but I'm so glad we did it.
And we really, uh, we relaunched the brand towards the end of last year. And now [00:27:00] we're just like, in Running the business feels so different. I think that's the most important thing. Like I said, I was quite depressed and burned out and just feeling really down on the business, but then down on myself.
Cause I just really had a lot of shame of like, how did we end up in this situation where we had such a successful launch? We have an incredible brand. We had an incredible product. And then we sort of like, Lost some of the quality and experience on our product. And I just like blamed myself a lot for that.
And that was just a really hard mental space to be in. I had lost a lot of like confidence and self worth within myself. So not only like now I'm just realizing this, but I'm like, I had to burn the business down and rebuild it. I think I also had to like rebuild myself and my confidence in myself and in my ability to like build this business, build this brand and You know, be a good CEO.
And I really have to give so much credit to my co founder, Emily, in that because, you know, I'm like, don't get emotional, but like, I'm just so grateful for her. And there were [00:28:00] just so many times where I was like, I shouldn't even be the CEO, like you be CEO or like, let's hire a CEO. And she was like, so. You are a good CEO, like I don't, I don't even want to be in this business if you're not the CEO.
And so, um, and I think we get that a lot as women is like, can we run our business, you know? Um, and we get it from the outside world. Like I luckily have not had to face this, but I have so many female founder friends where their investors come in at some point and are like, it's time for you to go. And it's a very early stage, like way earlier than any male founder would be getting those questions from their investors and advisors.
Um, Yeah. We didn't have any of that outside pressure, but I think I just had internalized something in that. And I was like, you know, I, I just, I reached this point where I felt like I couldn't do it, but I, we really did push through that huge, you know, testament to my co founder and her support and belief in me.
And it like really helped me build myself back up where now I'm like, let's fucking go. Like now we have like the product we always wanted, the supply chain we always wanted. , And it's not to say that [00:29:00] now I, like, have confidence every day, , I still have to work and build that all the time, but, , now I at least feel like my baseline is that, , I can do this, and, , and then, , kind of middle finger to whatever makes me, if anything, is kind of, you know.
Making me feel like I can't. The thing that I keep thinking when I hear you say this is, um, I saw you a lot during this time, and I had no idea that that's how you were feeling. Yeah. I feel like externally that was just not, that was just not what was coming across. And I think that we feel like we have to show up as these, um, you can't show any cracks while you're building the company because you're like, so, you know, if you're saying that things aren't working, like, Why would anybody else back it?
And so there's so much pressure to show up as this, like, everything's great, everything's awesome, and then it makes it actually so hard to have conversations like this. Yeah. But I think it's important to, um, uh, someone I know said to me that. [00:30:00] It's better to speak from a scar than a wound, like when you're in it, trying to, trying to like explain what's going on and like give any like perspective or like learnings from it.
Whereas when you get to the other side and you're sharing about what happened, that's actually probably better for everyone. But it can feel like when you're the person who's in it, that you're the only person that's in it. Because. where we're not able to like have these public conversations. How did you like personally, you know, the business rebuilding we've spoken about, but like how did you personally do that for yourself?
Yeah, I mean it was so many things like everything you just said is so real. It's like and that only like erodes your soul further because like there's it's so spiritually draining when you have to wear the mask and I think so many of us who are just like on like. a healing journey, journey, or a self development journey, whatever that looks like for you.
Like, what we're trying to do is, um, is narrow the gap between [00:31:00] how we show up in the world and how we feel inside. And like, when you are in that founder position, you feel like you can't be honest because if you're honest, it's going to like, it'll be a catastrophic. It will be the end of your business, the end of you, your identity is attached to the business, you know.
Yeah. Yep. So, then that gap is so wide, because you have to show up and pitch, like, I was sitting there being like, Yeah, I, like, it's hard for me to get through a bag of this candy. I also actually think that the formula got worse. Yeah. I, where can I show up and say that? Who can I say? I can't even, even like, I couldn't even say it to my co founder, because I was like, if I say this to her, she, she's going to walk out the door.
I mean, now I know she wouldn't, and now I know she's like really in it with me, but, um, and I should have known at the time. But again, it's like we were, you know, we were two years into working together. Now we're four years in. So it's like, I didn't know that she wouldn't freak out and be like, yeah, I also think this is a good product and I need to go.
Um, And so that gap was so wide, it was so hard. And like, what really happened to me in that period [00:32:00] is I had to turn so inwards cause I was so drained from running the business day to day. And you're pitching all day. Like you're selling into investors, retailers, if you're hiring people, you're pitching into, you know, potential employees.
So you're just drained and you just, there's such a disconnect. There's this massive spiritual disconnect. So then I just like, and that's why, where I think like I really hit a point of depression that I'd never, and I'd never had that experience before. Um, where, because then the, by the end of the day I was so drained.
I couldn't do anything. I couldn't see anyone. I couldn't socialize like to the point where like my friends were kind of worried where like, we haven't seen you in months. And I was checking in and just being like, I'm having a bit of a hard time, but like, I just need to, I just need to like be alone right now.
Um, And so when, I guess your question was like, how did I go through that rebuilding process? I mean, I don't, I definitely don't advocate for self isolation, but I do think I had so much I had to process internally and a lot of that did have to be done alone. I sort of call it like now I can see it. I didn't really understand it at the [00:33:00] time and now I can see it.
the soul. And I do actually think sometimes you have to go to that darkest part within yourself because no one else is going to heal that for you. Like you actually have to hit the rock bottom. It's in the rock bottom that you can actually see things clearly and that you also can be like, I don't accept this.
Like I don't accept feeling this way and I'm going to do what it takes to get myself out of this. Yes. Yes. Then the coming out of it part was, for one, I will say, I went to Mexico City, I worked from there for three months, I lived with an incredible friend of mine, she's also an entrepreneur, named Natalie, she lives in a beautiful oasis over Condesa, surrounded by plants, her home is full of plants, she's an interior designer, like it was the most safe container I feel like I could have gone to.
And we were in this rebuilding mode with the business, so I actually had a lot of free time because we were like waiting for new samples, waiting for the manufacturer to get back to us. Like, so it was a really beautiful time where I had this kind of space to, and I [00:34:00] got into to be magnetic, the um, sort of manifestation healing.
We ran into each other at an event. Jasmine and I are part of a cult. Yeah. Um, called to be magnetic. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, obviously that's rooted in so many like deep healing, , inner child healing based meditation practice. I did like all of the workshops in those three months that I was in Mexico city that was super impactful.
And then I started sharing on Tik Tok, not so much about the business. I think frankly, I needed like a little bit of a break from like talking about the business and like having to show up in this like peppy way when it didn't feel authentic to me. But I just had some free time and I had a lot on my mind and I was processing a lot through to be magnetic and through like these healing meditations.
So I just started getting on TikTok and talking about my divorce, my relationships, what it was like dating after my divorce, my relationship with money, manifestation, the things I was learning about manifestation, what was working. And that was so freeing to me because I could show up authentically there.
Like I was. Just truly just flipping [00:35:00] the camera on and just talking to camera. Um, obviously very uncomfortable and cringeworthy in the beginning, but now it's like truly just like an outlet for me in a space where I felt like I could show up very authentically and that was very healing for me because I was having to hide so much of myself within the business and the day to day.
So very long winded answer. I'm sure I could come up with other things that helped plant medicine. That's a big one for me. , that's amazing. I think, uh, we're going to do a part two with all of your recommendations that's going to come out later this week.
And so I want to save the rest of your recommendations for that. Okay. Um, that part too. But the next thing I kind of want to ask before we wrap up the show is about like what's working in the business now in terms of fueling that growth and that traction. Like where, you know, you mentioned earlier on you had this plan.
I'm guessing you've had a plan around paid ads if you, the iOS changes made a big impact on what you were thinking. What's working out there right now? Are you in retail? What's the, what's the [00:36:00] plan? Yeah, retail is really working for us. You know, when, once we get on the shelf, we move. And we move a ton of product.
Um, you know, we're, uh, we're in Erewhon, for example, is a great retail partner for us. And we're flying off shelves. We're one of the top selling candies in the store. Um, and, you know, It's just very validating to see even sitting next to bigger brands than us, even as in comparison to sugar based candies, we're still outselling them, even compared to products priced lower than us, we still outsell.
Wow. So it's been very validating. I get, um, It's really nice to see the retail data because that's where, like, that's where it really matters, right? You can feed someone an ad and they can get curious and want to buy it and try it out. On the retail shelf, like, you don't have that much space to tell the customer what your product is.
Um, huge testament also to our branding agency, Gander, who does our packaging design and just the job that they've done on the packaging. They're called [00:37:00] Gander. Um, and so. You know, that is real, that really feels like we are on the right path, seeing that we are like outselling most, if not all, other better for you candy brands and even outselling a lot of the much cheaper sugar based candy products that people, you know, typically reach for.
Um, and then the other thing that's worked really well, that was kind of a takeaway from that, like insights. process that we ran in the summer of 2022, something that we learned from it was that our most avid, highest LTV, you know, lifetime value customer, the person that comes back time and time again, subscribes on our website, et cetera, is somebody who has been told by typically a doctor that they need to cut out sugar for health.
And a lot of times actually life and death reasons. That could be diabetes, that could be pre diabetes, um, it could be PCOS, right? Cutting sugar out. A lot of times when you have PCOS can be a major drastic impact on, positive impact on your symptoms. Um, it could be autoimmune disorder, thyroid [00:38:00] disorder, cancer, right?
They say sugar is an attractant for cancer, so cancer survivors. Um, and so, In that surveying, what we heard is that segment of our most loyal customers typically have had this experience. Um, and that also drives a lot of like, I think me and my co founders passion in the business is there's a lot of people where like, you know, our, our brand is really about joy and it's about bringing the joy back into eating candy.
So we were really mindful not to go into this like shame and fear based side of sugar. But the reality is like the sugar is. killing us. That is the fact of the matter. You know, I grew up, my father is diabetic, um, but like the positive side of it is, and I think this was a good experience for me to have because it informs how we approach the business.
My dad managed his diabetes his entire, I should say my entire life watching him through diet. He never had to take insulin. Um, and he just recently has started taking medication as he's getting into his late 60s. Watching that, it's like, we don't have to medicate ourselves out of the problem.
We, [00:39:00] type 1 diabetes is different, but we can actually, you know, they call it reversing type 2 diabetes. You can't, I think, technically reverse it, but you can so significantly manage a lot of your health problems by reducing the amount of sugar that we're eating. We love seeing, like, these customer, well, we don't love that they're struggling with this, but we love that they come to us and they say, you know, I've been really struggling to adjust my diet after getting this diagnosis, after learning that I'm pre diabetic.
I know that it is, like, a matter of life and death for me to get my eating in order, but I've been, you know, eating sugar candy and drinking two Cokes every day for 30 years. How do you go from that to like our brain produces dopamine and positive, good feeling brain chemicals when it, um, eats sugar, when it receives sugar, how do you go from two Cokes a day to cold turkey zero as a matter of life and death as a matter of losing a limb, having to be amputated because of diabetes, right?
So we love that we can show it for the customer in that way. Um, that wasn't really a marketing tactic, but I think like having, hearing that [00:40:00] now is informing everything we're doing, like we are dry, we're generating UGC content that is coming from people with diabetes who have learned about our products and have been using them as like the indulgence that is safe for them.
Um, and. Really making sure that all of our content and all of our messaging is really centered around that. That's really really smart. Mesa, it's been so cool to hear about your story. Thank you so much for coming on Female Founder World. Thanks, Jasmine.
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