Hey, business besties. Welcome back to the female founder world podcast. I'm Jasmine. I'm the host of the show and the creator behind the female founder world universe. I'm actually going to do something a little different and ask my guests to introduce themselves because we have two women, two sisters on the show, and I want you to know whose voice is who.
Okay. Introduce yourselves. I'm Shaz. And I am Kiku. And you guys are building a hair care brand called Shaz and Kix. You are now entering female founder world with your host Jasmine Garnsworthy. Yep. For people who don't know the business, what are you guys creating? So Shaz and Kix is a hair wellness brand.
We build foundational hair health through high performing formulas that are rooted in Ayurveda. Ayurveda is the world's oldest healing system, originates from the Indian subcontinent, um, and it is, um, our heritage and our culture, and we're excited to create products that utilize these wonderful nutrient rich, um, ingredients, Indian herbs, oils, and flowers, and make them accessible and fun for all.
You started in 2020, which is an interesting time to launch, but actually a lot of people in the show did start around then. There are so many like pandemic babies that have now grown up, which is very, very cool. What were you doing before you started the business and did you quit your job to start this or what was the founder kind of story in the beginning?
Um, I can start. Um, so for me, I've had a 20 plus year experience. I started out as a chemical engineer. And then throughout the last 20 years, I've worked at a lot of different fortune 500 companies more with a different job almost every year over all sorts of different industries and different functions.
Um, but mainly, you know, eventually getting more into just business management and general management. I actually did not, um, Join full time with Shaz and Kix until just earlier this year. Mmm. Yep. Very cool. And my background, um, my first life before my current life with Chaz and Kix. Um, it started with, I was in, my undergrad major was Asian studies and political science.
I've always really had this fascination and deep love for, um, my culture and tradition. And I studied that, and then I didn't really know exactly what to do with it. And I entered the world of marketing, uh, here in New York city, uh, went into digital marketing. and specialized in digital analytics and strategy, um, worked at various big digital agencies, um, in New York, across industries, and then worked at Condé Nast, the publication company for many years, and worked in digital growth and strategy and innovation on media outlets like Vogue and GQ, and then across the whole entire portfolio.
So, yeah. Amazing. Okay, take me to 2020 and your launch. You launched with one product, but Two variations, two SKUs. What was that launch process like? What worked? What didn't work? As you were kind of thinking about that launch marketing and getting your thing out into the world. Yeah, so we started conceptualizing in 2018.
We both found ourselves finally back in our home state in Texas. So as I mentioned, I'd been out in New York for many years and Shaz was out in Dubai with her family working there for many years and then we both kind of fortuitously ride around right before 2018 moved back to our home state. of Texas.
We've always been super close as sisters. We always wanted to do something together and we always knew that we wanted to do something that celebrated our culture and our heritage. Um, we found ourselves one weekend visiting our parents in Houston and they had just come, came back from their like yearly trip to India.
And this, this time our mother brought back a bunch of, um, kind of these like this like, This relatively new brand that, um, was, like, luxury Ayurvedic hair care and skin care and body care. Um, and it seems like, you know, It seems like it wouldn't be really new, but until maybe even like 10 years ago in India, um, majority of beauty care was either using actual like raw ingredients in a DIY way within your, like, within your home and within your community, or you're using kind of, you know, massaged brands and from Procter and Gamble or Unilever and global companies like that.
So it, it was, um, it was relatively new seeing finished final goods that used Ayurvedic formulas and ingredients, even in India, and kind of packaged in, um, you know, in, in, in like in a luxury prestige, uh, manner and formulas that like were We hadn't really seen because we always just kind of make them in our kitchen or in our home.
Um, anyway, so she brought back a whole bunch of these, uh, these products. We were super excited and, um, it made us think back about our childhood where we did experience our grandmother, back when we'd visit in India, who would make, who'd handcraft a lot of these, um, these ingredients and into hair masks and shampoos and face masks.
And we, We use these new products that came from India and we were like just kind of it took us back to like when our hair felt the healthiest and the best and we really kind of that's when the light bulb started really kind of coming uh coming on for us and we thought that what a wonderful way it's like this one of the world's oldest kind of like beauty uh traditions and rituals and practices but they've just really stayed within our community and they've you know some ingredients have trickled out here and there but no one's really told the whole story and we also started putting on kind of our You know, our, like, our business marketing, uh, caps and really felt like hair care really had been nascent in the world of beauty, skincare, and, and, and cosmetics has really taken off, especially in, like, the clean green space, but hair care around 2018 was still, like, it really hadn't.
So we really felt like this was, like, a great space that had a lot of opportunity, um, and also was something that was so personal and, and passionate, um, from us. And so that really started. our journey into conceptualizing and it took us about two years and We were first time entrepreneurs and we you know had a bunch of decades of working on the corporate world But neither of us knew anything about beauty manufacturing or launching a new business so a lot of you know googling and taking a leap of faith and a lot of just kind of teaching ourselves and um, and And with that, I feel like, you know, with Shah's, she's, you know, she's an engineer, she's an MBAer, she's like, you know, run big, like, business legs of, of, like, large companies, and she's definitely the more conservative out of the us two when it comes to, kind of, like, growth and taking next steps.
And so, she was very adamant about, you know, You know, really using our first year as like an MVP and creating one product. We did have two variants, um, and really kind of using it as a test. You know, she's a true engineer. It was like, let's test and learn. Let's see if this even remotely. does anything if anyone cares.
Um, so we really kind of took it very slowly and very methodically, very much like along the lines of like Shaz's engineering mind. Okay. I love that. Very cool. And then I want to understand, like once you actually had the product and you were launching it, what did you do to get that buzz? What was your launch like?
I, you know, we hear lots of different stories on the show. Some people launch and they're like, we sold out in a week. That was amazing. Some people launch and sell one product and then know that they have to like change everything. Where did you guys sit? Well, um, well, we didn't, we sold more than one and we definitely didn't sell out, but you know, it's like, I know we like laugh about this all the time now.
And it was, you know, it's three years ago, which isn't that long, but you just learned so much from day one till now. And it was like, so it would seem like a different, it seemed like a different time and a different era. Um, so we had our one product. We obviously had, you know, Again, great, like marketing backgrounds and business backgrounds, but it's so different doing your own thing versus like sitting within like a large corporation with plenty of other resources.
Yeah. So, you know, we, we really leaned on, um, building a community on Instagram. It felt like, you know, we were TikTok was still like in 2020 was just felt like that was where like teenagers were dancing, which has evolved a lot since then. But, um, still wasn't. It wasn't the place for, for, um, for beauty brands at that, at that point.
So we really focused on Instagram and really building out our email list. So we very early on, um, created a specific quiz that was kind of fun to take that obviously encouraged you to put it in your email. Um, we did some paid advertising around it to get some additional emails around it. Um, and we like really, it felt like, It was a lot of storytelling, and it's still, that's still true to date, um, but it was really trying to, um, connect on a personal level, with almost like, painstakingly, like, person by person, brick by brick, um, a lot of just, like, cold DMing and reaching out, I feel like egos are always, like, checked, you know, at the door when you're, when you're kind of starting your own thing.
Um, yeah, you know, whether, yeah. And it was a, you know, it was a very different kind of product that, um, a Western consumer is, that's not part of their hair care ritual. And, you know, hair oiling, the concept was just starting to trickle in a little bit. Yeah. That, so our first product was called the Scalp and Hair Pre Wash.
And even the idea, you know, the name of it, pre wash, like what is that? Totally, it's a whole new step. Yeah, it's a whole new step. And it's also not exactly like a pre poo because there's some very specific ways in which we recommend putting it in, which is in dry hair before your, before your shower. So like all these concepts are very new.
So I think along with the storytelling, came this like, What we've very quickly realized is also that we need to really be educating on Why you need this, you know, this different step and why is dry, putting it in dry hair important? so really also like diving a little bit more into the science because When we were growing up, it's not like somebody's like, Oh, you're doing this.
And this is Ayurveda. It was just, it was just normal. And it was just what we knew. Um, so really diving a lot more into the science of Ayurveda was another thing that we spent quite a bit of like that first year doing and educating them. And when you guys first launched, this was using like your savings, your bootstrapping.
And then in 2021, you had a you brought in some friends and family and some angels. How much did you bring in then? So it's a little over a half a million. Okay. With, uh, with friends and family. And what were some of those key lessons that you learned? I think a lot of folks in the community are at the spot where they're like, okay, building a consumer product business is, it's gonna cost some money, gonna need some money.
Yes. What have you learned about, um, fundraising? Um, so I think one of the key lessons and this was just through our journey. Um, you know, we had some interested investors, uh, early on before we actually even decided we were going to do a friends and family round, um, and they were interested in doing the entire, you know, half a million just with the two of them.
Um, But they were from the tech world, and I think that was one of our key lessons very early on, is just hearing what their expectations were, what they're like. They were like, no, no, no, this growth trajectory that you're showing is, is bogus. You know, you need to be like growing at a, you know, but all that takes money and capital, right?
So there is, there is a balance between your need for cash and the growth. But I think, you know, Obviously, like, tech investors have a very different mindset. Um, so while, you know, there was this thing of like, oh, we, you know, we need money. But there was also like, but we need it from the right people. Yeah.
Um, with the right mindset. But that's also such an important thing to call out. Because I think you can get into a position where you're like, I just desperately need some money Business. But then, you know, you can get, and I've seen it happen. I've spoken to people who have done this. You get five years in and you are stuck with investors who don't get your space, don't understand your vision, and have just a, just these wild expectations of growth because they don't understand the category and, uh, maybe your goals for the business are totally misaligned with their goals.
So I think that's like really important. Yeah. For you to call out. Yeah. I was gonna say like, I think it was one of the first times. Between us, there was, I wouldn't say it was a bit of a disagreement, but there was a lot of back and forth. Oh my god, if I started a business with myself, At least you know that no one's not, like, no one's hiding anything.
It's all out of you. Right, it's all there, yeah. You're not, you're not wondering, oh, I wonder what she's thinking. You can trust, right? You can trust the other person. That they are looking out for you. Yeah. Yeah, and like, I feel like, Kind of almost like true younger sister, over, always overenthusiastic about everything, and, um, and I was just so excited that like, oh my god, like, anybody wants to give us money?
Hardly, yeah. And it was like, you know, two trusted, um, people from our network, um, you know, have, have been part of a lot, you know, very big, big, successful companies. And when they, when they show, when they showed interest, I was, you know, I really was overly excited. And, you know, we were, we were, we were needing money.
And, um, so I definitely was in like the yes category without, um, you know, without, I think, super thinking through kind of long term. And that's where Shaz came in and, and we, you know, we took our time and, and again, it never felt right to me either. And I think that's one of the things that we. You know, we very much learned in that, in that first year of, um, even if you are new to the space, even if, you know, maybe you've never had a corporate job or you're totally new as an entrepreneur or you don't know the industry as well, um, as that you, what you, what you're in and you're building, but there is something to your gut and trusting yourself and, and it comes from, you know, you, you are doing this, you're believing in yourself and you know that like, yes, you can always learn from others, but at the end of the day, like you, you, this is yours and you have ownership of it and to take, take like do the due diligence and take time.
And it went back and forth for almost about like two months. Right. And towards the end, we, it really started kind of. Coming into play where it didn't feel right. Um, Yeah. And, But that's just such a skill and something that you have to practice and hone in on. Like, not knowing what is fear because you are going into something that's new, which you're going to come up with all the time, versus, um, That got uneasy sense of this isn't the thing I should be doing and it's a different feeling and it's just like practice of figuring out which one it is.
Yeah. Um, but I think that's really important to call out and that applies for everything. Yeah. Friends and family. Absolutely. Not just fundraising. Um, okay. So 2022 Sephora Accelerate came about. You guys are now sold out. Which is awesome. How did, why do you think Sephora picked you? Like what was in your application for people who are in the beauty space, they want to do the Sephora accelerate program.
Like just a couple of quick things that you think maybe made you stand out. I think that, you know, looking from their POV, Sephora is always trying to fill in, and this is Sephora, and this is any big retail, is that they're always trying to fill in the gaps on their, on their shelf. Right. So, you know, from very early on.
If you have a specific retailer partner that you want to work with, like, study, study their portfolio, study their, um, you know, study their shelves digitally and brick and mortar. Um, and really look where you can fill in, um, openings and gaps and, um, that do align with what you feel like is like the larger audience trends and needs.
Um, I think that we were. One of our winnings, like our, one of our kind of our big wins with Sephora was really our formulas. And that, you know, they've told us that as well, honestly, where, um, they were really impressed with, like, the quality and the efficacy of our products. Of course, like, the fact that they, um, come from Ayurveda and the ingredients, um, but they felt like our formulas specifically really, um, filled like a, filled a gap in their hair care portfolio.
Okay. So make sure that you're filling a white space and that you're like, communicating that. to them about where you're going to sit within their assortment. That's a really good call out. Before the show, we were talking about, for those of us who are never going to get into Sephora Accelerate, what are three quick things that you took away from the program that you think people need to know, even if they don't get to it?
One of them was around compliance. Yeah, so, um, and this is essentially if you're entering any big retail. Yeah, you do need to be EDI Compliant which is essentially the way that like your Your inventory system is talking to their inventory. Okay, essentially, so there are inventory management systems You would need to look for ones that are EDI Compliant because that's how kind of like the two systems will talk to each other you guys using You know, no, yeah, I put you Yeah, yeah, since 7.
Okay, yep. Um, so, and it does take some time. Um, there's also like a lot of testing involved. So, that's something that, you know, if that's a goal of yours, is to make sure you're kind of looking forward, looking forward. to that and seeing how you can have that. Okay. Great tip. The next one was around, um, language and naming and a lesson that you guys had with some of your products.
Yeah. So I think we, we originally started off with, with, you know, kind of like fun, whimsical, creative names. We had like, you know, collection and products fell under it. And it was like this whole, you know, kind of flow chart of, of now looking back just overcomplicating. And it was something that was like, fun and creative and meaningful to us.
But at the end of the day, really looking at like the larger audience and the larger customer base. And if they didn't know anything about you, they don't know your name, they don't know, you know, they don't, they're not familiar with your products or with, you know, like the, the mission of your company, they should be able to immediately like, look at your name, um, and know exactly what this is, what it's doing, what it's helping, what, what's the benefit, what's the use.
And I think that's one of the things that we, sounds really basic, but I feel like a lot of us, you know, when you are creators of your own brand, you're, you know, you're in your head a lot. Yeah. Get deep in it. You're, um, you're looking down a lot. And again, it's, it's, it's so personal to all of us, right.
That's, that's building something. And, um, sometimes. Sometimes I feel like we get, and this happened to us, you know, we've, we kind of lost where, there's one thing of like when we're on our marketing channels, on our D2C site, and the level of, um, information and education that we can relay is very different from when you're on a retail shelf or on a retail site.
Um, so really kind of cutting to the chase, um, of course you can, of course you can be creative and whimsical, but it, it needs to really relay over to the audience. information. What's an example of something that you're looking at that you would, you would change? So we had like, so our, our, um, our very first shampoo and conditioner or that collection was called Unearth Yourself.
Yeah. It was, it was using a lot of clay and, um, you know, kind of, again, like the powers of, of, um, of the earth. It was like, it's also like, who, like, who knows what the hell that is, you know? Yeah. What does that mean? And it's also like the real estate on your packaging is so. Yes. Precious. It's so small.
Because you don't have your whole TikTok and your whole website and all of that. Like, it's on a shelf. Yes. Yes. Um, and so every single, like, letter, every single number, every, any character on your packaging, it really needs to, Yeah. Um, and so, you know, we've, we've done away, you know, we had collections and we have done away with collection names and, um, and I also put a lot of, um, you know, like really looking from like the customer, someone who does not know you at all, um, putting, stepping into their shoes and looking at our like naming, uh, nomenclature and how we, how we've kind of worked together.
now fleshed it out. We, we, we look at it from the outside perspective, not from like the inside founder perspective. Another story that you were both telling me before we recorded was around, um, we had a product with the word cleanser in it. Tell me that. Yeah. So that first shampoo that we had, it was called the balancing clay cleanser.
Yeah. And again, it goes back to kind of what he was saying, you know, it was a bit whimsical and the fact that like this clay, it, what it's really doing is cleansing your scalp. So we were like, why not call it a cleanser. Rather than that, a shampoo and you know, we can be differentiated and kind of all like that way of thinking, um, but very quickly, you also realize like when you're filling out all the information that goes on to the Sephora web page, yes, that Putting, balancing clay cleanser means nothing in a title, right?
So if you're searching cleanser, you're not expecting to get a hair product. Exactly. So I think just being really direct and really thinking about it through that lens, um, is really important, you know, as you're entering for it, because the thing is you can go through different iterations and, you know, everyone's going to have a learning journey about their packaging, but every single time it's going to cost you a little bit of time and money, right?
To like, to change your packaging for even existing products. And we also have just a call out, we have a, um, a free, uh, retail, like pitch deck. If you want to go into retail, if you're exploring a wholesale part of your business, we have a free Canva template that you got that anyone listening can customize and access and I'll put it in their show notes.
Cause that just reminded me of that as well. The last thing I want to ask you both is for a resource, something that's been helping you as you've been building this amazing haircare business. Could be a book, could be. Another podcast, it could be really anything that's been helping you up level and the business grow as well.
I'll start with you, Charles. Um, so this is actually more of a little bit of a tip because, you know, fundraising can be tough. Um, and then as a small business, it's also really hard. We, we went through this journey of like trying to get like a loan and a line of credit through like the big banks, which, you know, they look at your revenue and they're like, yeah, I don't think so.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so one, like really somebody gave us this tip, which I love to give as advice, is look at, um, smaller, like regional banks for some of that initial cash that you might need, which, you know, if you're not able to bootstrap, because they, especially if it's, as in loans, Yeah. Loans or a, or a line of credit, um, could be two things that, and, and it is very hard to get it from the big banks.
But if you look at like, so we have, you know, we have like a small Texas national bank that our regional bank that we work with and they've been amazing and like they really want to support, you know, their local entrepreneurs. And so. That's such a great tip. It, you'll have much more success and it's a whole different experience.
Wow. Okay. Great tip. What about you? I wanted to share two newsletters that I think are really helpful. One is Nick Sharma's newsletter, which I know is super popular. The DDC guy, um, love reading that every Sunday. And then he also like always like links out to so many different resources. And then the other one is, um, by Rachel Carton.
called Lincoln Bio and we both used to work at Conde Nast at one point and she used to be the social media manager for Bon Appetit and then she, and then various brands as well and now, um, she creates this amazing newsletter that, um, in kind of in the world of social media and I think it's super great, smart resource for all things social media.
Well, thank you both so much for coming on this show. It's been awesome to hear about what you're building. I'm so, um, impressed. I it's very, you guys were one of the early brands. I think that kind of like came on the radar as we were building female found world. I know that you gifted in the summer gift bags last year, and we had amazing feedback from those products as well.
And so I knew that I had to get you on the show and figure out exactly what it was that you were building and how you were doing it. Well, we're so honored and appreciative of being part of this community and having the opportunity to chat with you. Amazing. Thank you, Jasmine. Thank you. Quick shout out to all of our business bestie subscribers, if you are loving the show and you are building a consumer, CPG or e commerce business, or you're about to build one, this membership will give you access to the people, experiences, and the tools that you really need to build your dream business.
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